Yes. Pockmark boy. 
That wasn't very nice. 
Lots of people have chicken pox scars. Icky remark.
That wasn't very nice. Lots of people have chicken pox scars. Icky remark.
Calling All Shippers! Mediation Thread
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I did see a "wrinkly butt" comment about Archer/SB before the pockmark comment though. Don't remember if it was on this board, for sure, but I think it was. Let's be fair, both sides have done this.
On a side-note, I do not see complaining about "SuperArcher" as an insult to the character - it's an insult to show format. At least, when I say it it is. It makes me dislike Archer more when that happens, but I'm insulting the writing, not the character when I comment on it.
On a side-note, I do not see complaining about "SuperArcher" as an insult to the character - it's an insult to show format. At least, when I say it it is. It makes me dislike Archer more when that happens, but I'm insulting the writing, not the character when I comment on it.
Sorry if I sound soap boxy, I'm trying not to be...
I think I have seen almost all the actors and characters drug through the mud around here at one time or another (and I'm not talking about 'shippers alone). I'm not saying everyone does it, just that things have happened.
I don't see the point in pointing out particular incidents. We could go back and forth. That would mean we'd be here a LONG time. And I think it would just increase the hurt feelings between 'ship groups.
And the past is the past. I'm wondering what we can do now in the present and in the future to make this board seem more friendly for all 'ship groups.
I believe the following brings up another important aspect of the "war." It's gone beyond 'ships, and a lot of the flaming going on is Archer fans vs. Tucker fans vs. T'Pol fans. And I believe the "pockmark" comment was made in response to someone who had said Archer had a "wrinkly ass." Funny? Perhaps. 
Where do we draw the line? At 'shipper wars only, or does this include the so-called Actor Wars too?
Where do we draw the line? At 'shipper wars only, or does this include the so-called Actor Wars too?
Okay, now that I've calmed down (thanks to some Chinese food and an episode of The Fabulous Life...) I'm going to advocate perspective.
Heck, I'm not even mad any more. *shrugs* I think I needed to get it out.
This thread will be good for that if for no other reason. There's a lot of resentment going around on both sides, over things that we see and get upset over but never discuss. It doesn't have to get accusatory (yep, my bad to commodore64) but I think it will help if we let people continue to bring up specific examples. Helped me get over it much faster than I would have normally.
Edit to RedFenix: Thanks. I appreciated the Bakula thread response more than you know.
Heck, I'm not even mad any more. *shrugs* I think I needed to get it out.
This thread will be good for that if for no other reason. There's a lot of resentment going around on both sides, over things that we see and get upset over but never discuss. It doesn't have to get accusatory (yep, my bad to commodore64) but I think it will help if we let people continue to bring up specific examples. Helped me get over it much faster than I would have normally.
Edit to RedFenix: Thanks. I appreciated the Bakula thread response more than you know.
I have a couple of thoughts:
First of all, I don't understand why there can be such hostility about a show that we ALL like!
Second, I am, as a lot of you in here know, a T/T'Per, but I see nothing wrong with people being an A/T'Per. To be quite honest, the ONLY thing about A/T'P that would have ever bothered me (before T/T'P became so predominate) is the fact that he's the Captain and she is a subordinate....it's not allowed.
Third, I don't go into the A/T'P thread, period. The main reason is because I just simply have no interest in participating with the conversation. I would not agree with anything that any of them said (and that's OK, that's supposed to be the beauty of free speach). The only reason I could see somebody going into a thread about a 'ship that they don't support is to go back and bad mouth them in the other thread and I absolutely don't think that should happen!!
Bottom line is: I'm here to talk to people with whom I have something in common with. I love Trek/SciFi and always have. Until X-Files, I never thought of supporting a 'ship. And even in Enterprise, I didn't start to become a T/T'Per until S3. I personally saw the dynamic in their relationship and thought it was incredibly sexy and I fell in love with them. I love being able to talk to the friends that I have already made that feel the same as I do.
I can't speak for everyone of course, but I know that I would NEVER intentionally hurt anyone's feelings or say anything nasty to anybody. That's the way I am in real life and it doesn't change when I sit down at my computer and post on this board. I was taught by my mother that it doesn't matter if other people don't see you do something wrong or know that you're the one who did it. Ultimately, YOU KNOW and you can keep from being malicious.
*kitkat steps off her soapbox*
First of all, I don't understand why there can be such hostility about a show that we ALL like!
Second, I am, as a lot of you in here know, a T/T'Per, but I see nothing wrong with people being an A/T'Per. To be quite honest, the ONLY thing about A/T'P that would have ever bothered me (before T/T'P became so predominate) is the fact that he's the Captain and she is a subordinate....it's not allowed.
Third, I don't go into the A/T'P thread, period. The main reason is because I just simply have no interest in participating with the conversation. I would not agree with anything that any of them said (and that's OK, that's supposed to be the beauty of free speach). The only reason I could see somebody going into a thread about a 'ship that they don't support is to go back and bad mouth them in the other thread and I absolutely don't think that should happen!!
Bottom line is: I'm here to talk to people with whom I have something in common with. I love Trek/SciFi and always have. Until X-Files, I never thought of supporting a 'ship. And even in Enterprise, I didn't start to become a T/T'Per until S3. I personally saw the dynamic in their relationship and thought it was incredibly sexy and I fell in love with them. I love being able to talk to the friends that I have already made that feel the same as I do.
I can't speak for everyone of course, but I know that I would NEVER intentionally hurt anyone's feelings or say anything nasty to anybody. That's the way I am in real life and it doesn't change when I sit down at my computer and post on this board. I was taught by my mother that it doesn't matter if other people don't see you do something wrong or know that you're the one who did it. Ultimately, YOU KNOW and you can keep from being malicious.
*kitkat steps off her soapbox*
I agree that accusations shouldn't be brought up. I think those only make things worse. I think that specific incidents will single out people, even if their names aren't mentioned. And will do more harm than good.
I don't know if specific examples = specific incidents in your post.
I suppose eventually it would be detrimental to bring up every little teeny thing that pisses us off. However, when there are big things that anger each group, I think it should be fair game. It's obviously not enough to just say "everyone stop being mean" or "can't we all just get along" because if that worked we'd all be perfectly fine and this thread wouldn't exist.
Uncle Zane's Shipper Rules to Live By:
1. Shippers on both sides need to stop LOOKING for reasons to be offended. Those who always search for the negative things in life generally miss out on enjoying the positive stuff. And that's a real shame, 'cause there's usually lots to be positive about.
2. Shippers on both sides need to stop lashing out immediately upon a preceived offense. Take a DEEP breath, go for a walk, stop to smell the roses. Most of the worst around here is very off the cuff, rash and knee-jerk.
3. Shippers on both sides need to stop DELIBERATELY trying to stir up the other side. WAY too much of this continues to happen. Responsible parties know who they are. You might find it fun, but it does no one any good.
4. Shippers on both sides need to realize that whatever happens on the show, not everyone is going to be happy with or like it. Those who are pleased shouldn't flaunt it in others' faces, and those who aren't shouldn't lash out in outrage.
5. Shippers on both sides should NEVER generalize about the other side. The surest way to piss people off is to say: "_____ shippers always..." Not only is it asking for trouble, but you're probably wrong a LOT more often than you realize.
Look guys... shippers all have their own preferences, myself included. But let's all try to remember that we love the show first and foremost, and that it IS just a show. We all have much more in common that the things that would seem to divide us.
Life's too short to let shipper wars consume you, folks. At the end of your lives, are any of you REALLY going to be lying there thinking: "Damn... if only T'Pol had hooked up with ____, life would have been so much better!" I sure hope not.
As Phlox says: "Optimism!"
1. Shippers on both sides need to stop LOOKING for reasons to be offended. Those who always search for the negative things in life generally miss out on enjoying the positive stuff. And that's a real shame, 'cause there's usually lots to be positive about.
2. Shippers on both sides need to stop lashing out immediately upon a preceived offense. Take a DEEP breath, go for a walk, stop to smell the roses. Most of the worst around here is very off the cuff, rash and knee-jerk.
3. Shippers on both sides need to stop DELIBERATELY trying to stir up the other side. WAY too much of this continues to happen. Responsible parties know who they are. You might find it fun, but it does no one any good.
4. Shippers on both sides need to realize that whatever happens on the show, not everyone is going to be happy with or like it. Those who are pleased shouldn't flaunt it in others' faces, and those who aren't shouldn't lash out in outrage.
5. Shippers on both sides should NEVER generalize about the other side. The surest way to piss people off is to say: "_____ shippers always..." Not only is it asking for trouble, but you're probably wrong a LOT more often than you realize.
Look guys... shippers all have their own preferences, myself included. But let's all try to remember that we love the show first and foremost, and that it IS just a show. We all have much more in common that the things that would seem to divide us.
Life's too short to let shipper wars consume you, folks. At the end of your lives, are any of you REALLY going to be lying there thinking: "Damn... if only T'Pol had hooked up with ____, life would have been so much better!" I sure hope not.
As Phlox says: "Optimism!"
Well, as I posted earlier, I think the solution is obvious - stay out of each others' threads. It's just common sense. If one enters a thread about "ENT vs Defiant, which would win in battle" and posts a bunch of rolling eyeballs and calls the posters in there geeks, of course you're going to get your butt flamed. It's the same with 'ship threads - if you don't have anything constructive to contribute, then don't post. (Not 'you' as in you 'Shippy, that's a generic 'you'). Call me naive, but I honestly don't see why this is such a difficult concept.
I think they have a point, actually. And I think in being specific we can really address the problems. To skirt around them will continue, imo, to land us in hot water. I remember that incident specifically.
I like hearing, "I didn't like that. It hurt my feelings." It gives us boundaries. Some of the boundaries I may push back on -- criticism of Trip is fair game, I think.
Back to the appearances -- I'd be okay if they called Archer or Bakula "The Shnoz," I personally like that feature of his and can say, "You know -- it's not small and I think it's magnificent." I've heard him called old man. Big woop! I don't really care. He has gray hair and is about to turn 50 and you know what? He's still hot, imo.
I think my personal distaste is when people attack the character of an actual person. For example, if someone called Bakula a dimwit, I'd be pissed. I've seen "Blalock is not very bright" quite a bit a couple of weeks ago.
Dragging someone's character [not the T'Pol type, you know which one] and name through the mud is much different. And I think it's wrong.
But, I think I can agree that if making fun of someone's appearance hurts your feelings or you find offensive, than I can agree not to do that.
Can you agree not to drag someone's name into the mud because I think it's wrong? [Not you specifically, but you in general?]
Seriously, I would like to get specific. I think this thread is around to really dig into the problems. As Frasier would say, "I'm listening."
I can't speak for anyone else, but I have no problem with that. I think it's wrong too.
Okay. This little dig was posted into a Trip/T'Pol thread back on 7/27. I remember it for 2 reasons: 1) It was posted by the same person who made the 'pockmark' comment, and 2) It's the only time I can remember posting in anger to someone.
IMO, this was inappropriate and unwelcome to post in a thread devoted to Trip/T'Pol.
I am a T/T shipper and quit visiting the shipper threads a very long time ago. Most of the ideas have already been visited many times, the thread inevitably turn into chatty threads, and the bickering between the two ships is sickening and disturbing to me.
In the past few weeks, the sniping has spread over onto the other threads. It has gotten so bad, I barely visit this forum anymore.
Which brings me to the comment below.
I object to the above quote.
What an actor or actress does or says in public should be allowed to be commented on. His or her private life should remain private.
If an actor or actress poses nude in Playboy or nearly nude in Maxim, those same pictures are either linked or posted in the threads in this forum. But the morality of posing for those same pictures cannot be questioned! Talk about hypocrisy.
If an actor does an interview poorly, why must we not criticize the same actor?
I understand that some people reading this thread like certain actors/actresses and dislike others. But that doesn't mean you should jump all over any critical statements that get made.
In the past few weeks, the sniping has spread over onto the other threads. It has gotten so bad, I barely visit this forum anymore.
Which brings me to the comment below.
I object to the above quote.
What an actor or actress does or says in public should be allowed to be commented on. His or her private life should remain private.
If an actor or actress poses nude in Playboy or nearly nude in Maxim, those same pictures are either linked or posted in the threads in this forum. But the morality of posing for those same pictures cannot be questioned! Talk about hypocrisy.
If an actor does an interview poorly, why must we not criticize the same actor?
I understand that some people reading this thread like certain actors/actresses and dislike others. But that doesn't mean you should jump all over any critical statements that get made.
Well, that could've been me. If so, sorry.
But, that might be good ground rules -- don't go into a pro-ship thread and say something obviously imflamatory about that ship.
And, maybe this speaks to Shippy's comment. See, I think Dak just brought something up. We don't need to know who said it [not that I would remember anyway]; all we need to know is: "I think this is bad."
So ... we have ....
1) Don't post nasty things about an actor's appearance or say negative things about his/her "character," but the actual Enterprise characters are mostly fair game. Done!
2) Don't purposefully come into a pro-ship thread and bait people on the other side. I think I can agree to that. Can you [again in general]? If so, done!
3) Perception and opinion can be debated. Done!
Zane's right about the baiting. I bait occassionally [but I would think it seems obvious when I do]. I mean to be playful, but can understand your side. I will try very hard to stop. I would actually say very few T/T'Pers do this.
I will continue to be try and playful, but will really watch it.
4) Don't bait people. Wait might help me is -- "C64, are you baiting me?!" I'll 99.9% come clean.
I think Jenna brought up a good personal point elsewhere -- the smiling and winking is nice, but at some point it becomes sarcastic. I think Janek will probably rejoice at this concession -- can we watch the
on both sides?5) If you insert an icon, really mean it.
Jenna, Thai [Pad Phet] always makes me feel better. Food is good. Thanks for coming back in and saying that. Mighty cool of you.
I agree but sadly if we agree with the actor/actress that apparently is not allowed if he/she doesn't adore Trip.Same with defending the actor or actress' comments. Ms. Blalock was slammed for an opinion that was hers and shared by many. For stating her opinion she and those of us who agreed were attacked for being prejudiced. Many of us are from or still live in the southern US and had no problems with the article and when said so were jumped on repeatedly for just saying she has a right to her opinion. No matter the thread any perceived slight against Trip is jumped on--this is not a shipper issue because T'Pol is just a tool to many who claim to be T/T fans. That is why I don't get this thread.
I do however support the mods and their attempt to help the situation! I certainly don't envy them!
angie
That's another great point I'd like to emphasize. To me, being critical of stories, characters, or their relationships is one of the building blocks of this forum's debate structure. Discussion should be able to flourish when the material is so dynamic like that. Don't let your perceptions fool you by mistaking objective posting as an attempt to rile you up.
There's some great replies in this thread. Just remember to please do your best to keep it civil. No need for anyone to burst a bubble. Say what's bothering you, just remember it's not necessary to engage others.
Oh, and thanks, Commie. I like your sig. Often summarizes my day in one word.
Cubbie -- I think saying, "I wish Blalock hadn't said that" or "I find that objectionable" is fine. Calling her a "sleaze" because of it isn't, imo. It's a fine line.
Questioning an actor for being on the cover of magazines = fine. Calling her a "slut" and then praising how she dirobed in Damage makes me feel "ick." I think certainly it's hypocrisy, but there's something about it like "Women who take off their clothing in a fashion I like is good, but in a fashion I don't like is not good" that kinda feels like an insult to me as a woman. I know I'm not alone on this one.
You know what's funny, I have less objections to the way Bakula and Archer are treated than that of T'Pol [and Archer's my favorite character]. I would love for you [in general] to treat Blalock and even T'Pol with a little more warmth. If she is the apple of your favorite character's eye -- she at least deserves some love.
This is my opinion by the way. Many of "you" [in general] treat T'Pol very well.
Maybe this is my bias -- I like her character an awful lot and think the actress is cool [she doesn't mince words in the same way that Mr. Trinneer does not]. I admire this.
This is what we're trying to avoid, I believe. Lumping all people from each shipper group in together. Those who didn't like Jolene's comments had a right to not like them and express that. MOST of us were able to distinguish between her and her character and notice the finer points of her interview. The hypocrisy comment is also a valid opinion. However, I will point out that many T/T as well as A/T shippers leapt to her defense. I didn't appreciate having that brought into other threads either. You seem to enjoy bringing it up (the attempted derailment of the T/T poll thread comes to mind), which annoys me. I feel like it's brought up to make T/T folks look bad (even though it wasn't all of us) much the same way the pockmark comment is brought up to make the A/T folks look bad (even though it wasn't all of you).
As for the constant defense of Trip thing... do you expect us to just stop defending him? Sorry, no dice. Just because we defend him zealously doesn't mean we think you don't have a right to dislike him.
AntiArcherTPol
Captain
You know, this makes utterly no sense. You want to completely ban any negative comment about a specific ship? WTF? The board is supposed to be for discussion of the show - both positive and negative. Negative comments about the SHOW certainly aren't banned, but you would consider banning negative comments about a certain 'ship? Wow, priorities much? As for the shipper nonsense, maybe it would be a good thing if the same rules for spamming applied to shipper threads as apply to other threads. At any given point, there are five or six threads on the same shippy topic. WHY?
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