Calling All Shippers! Mediation Thread

Preach it, Sister!

 

Well... *steps up to her pupit* Eh.. I'll leave the preaching to J. Allen.

 

Well personally I think we Archer fans are doing pretty good with the Archer bashing going on in the ep 9 spoiler thread.We are also having a great discussion with zane in the Home thread. That said how many times have I been called on the carpet recently for refusing to admit there is a big three and Trip is part of it? That is my opinion and no one debates or discusses it they just say I am wrong. Well anyone who says we are wrong about not being allowed to post is wearing blinders.

 

I feel a bit deflated. I feel like it's okay for Tuckerites to attack Archer (with the same thing over and over in one thread) and it's not okay for Archerites to *discuss* Trip. We're often labeled Trip haters.

I think, as you can read in my shipping comments, this is my greatest problem with shipping and why I often feel like it's Tuckerites vs. Archerites.

I just wish this so-called tolerance was around when Blalock had some opinions about Trip (the character). And it seemed to ruin a good atmosphere we had going on in this room.

 

commie---I agree. But you forget that tolerance isn't necessary for a bimbo nor for those who think she has no right to an opinion just like we do(though we agree with her that Mr. Bakula has a kick-ass bod)!

 

one thing..
just because some one is anti super archer dosnt mean they are anti archer.

i just think a human but heroic captain who has a good dependable crew is more interesting then someone who can take about any sort of punishment , do it all and has buffoons for crew.

actually i have debated and discussed this and the kirk, bones and spock issue /

here is a little reminder..

The Enterprise triumvirate of Archer
(the all-American space cowboy), T'Pol
(the stoic, emotionless, pointy-eared Vulcan)
and Trip (the twangy good old boy)
is practically a carbon copy of Kirk, Spock and "Bones."


TV Guide Article, August 25-31, 2001
======================

from starlog
As Season One progressed, viewers and Trip's shipmates
alike got to know the character rather well,
especially since executive producers Rick Berman
and Brannon Braga chose to include Trip in the show's
main triumvirate -- Captain Archer (Scott Bakula),
T'Pol (Jolene Blalock) and Tucker --
which echoes the original series' Kirk-Spock-McCoy tandem
===================

from the series bible/.

More importantly, Archer, T'Pol, and Tucker form
the triumverate of the series, the three most important
decision-makers on board, similar
to (you guessed it) Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

=============

 

Pookha---for the last time I don't care what "proof" you or anyone else has for your holy trinity. "I" don't see it, don't want to , and don't care. Trip is a secondary character to me.My opinion.

 

Well if you're trying to deny a fact of the show then no kidding people are gonna say you're wrong.

 

saying no one wants to discuss and debate it and then saying i dont care what proof is presented and then saying "I" don't see it, don't want to , and don't care." sorta sounds like you are the one who dosnt want to discuss or debate it.

you can have your opinion of course, but then dont complain that no one wants to discuss or debate it.

 

No, but it's pretty clear to me that some of the comments made are anti-Archer ... perhaps not yours.

Personally, when Tuckerites go on and on about "Super!Archer" and we come up with avatars, you guys decide it's not enough so you have contests on your site to come up with names. Some are funny, but some are just dumb and dumber.

I think some of the statements are mean-spirited and intended to be so. But that's not my biggest problem.

My biggest problem is this double standard:
* making a big to-do about Archer and claiming you hate him is okay.
* saying anything unflattering about Trip is not, this includes the blow-up earlier this week with Indranee and comments from Blalock.

What makes the comments about how "fucking stupid" Archer is okay, but saying "Trip/T'Pol is idiotic" not?

*That* is my problem.

The crew aren't buffoons.

Have any of you read or watched The Power of Myth? It's about stereotypes and characters ... from a man who studied Jung. Joseph Campbell looked at stories told by different people all over and classified them into archetypes and stereotypes. He argued stories told fall into patterns.

Some stories, like this one (ENT), have a powerful hero (like Odysseus) who goes through trials and tribulations to achieve greatness. His journey, and it's his though others are on his ship, also cost him a lot -- his wife and sanity, but he comes out triumphant.

 

every time super archer has shown up the crew has been shown to be either less bright , weak or both.

we saw it in shipment when all of sudden the crew were ghosts and shadows of themselves that could do not right were archer was perfect,
north star where neither malcolm not the maccos know how to set up a perimeter defense and tpol reduced to a weak capturted damsel.

i much prefer the stories from proving ground onward.

 

k guys are we sure this convo belongs in the shipper thread?

Bottom line is dislike of Archer or super Archer isn't something that's exclusive to shippers.

 

yes that is very true..
i am just sorry the grading threads are not archived or we could have lots of examples of this.

 

jenna, there's a big BUT here, right?

tolerance, but only in a non-rage thread. it's okay, I'm not mad, just pointing out the subtleties in your hypothesis.

 

Ulva, yeah, I do like SOME. but not all. though I was bred on Bollywood, my first love is still Tollywood of yesteryear.

and HOllywood kicks ass as well. at least, SOME of it.

btw, remember any names or have they all melted into one BIG song and dance around a tree?

 

This is very true... For the first two seasons I HATED Archer's behaviour most of the time. *sorry Archerites but I had to say that*... I wanted him off of the show. I felt that he did not have command presence. I groaned at every 'speech' that he gave... But I did not hate Archer... I was trying to look at him as being new to space and optimistic...

But after the wonderful and dramatic change with the character in Season 3 I had an about face! I fell in love with Archer and even began to cheer him on! I liked that he took risks even if they were not always PC. He seemed self assured and I felt that was a man the crew could respect...

BUT... I still can't stand the SuperArcher! aspect when it rears it's ugly head. I like it when he turns to his fellow officers for advice and their expertise... This came through a lot more in Season 3.

I like a Captain that relies on his fellow crew members... Not one that can teach every crew member how to do their job... Yes he should know something about every aspect of the ship but he excells at it even though it is their speciality. He should be surprised at their findings and impressed with their knowledge instead of always saying,"Hey this is what we can do..." and the officers going "Wow! You're right sir! I never thought of that!" He should not be someone that can shoot better than his armory officer, fly better than his helmsman or withstand blows better than a Vulcan...IMO That is the SuperArcher that I can't stand to watch.

As for Kirk being SuperKirk... That was rare... I never felt that anyone was expendable in the TOS series! On ENT we could clone Archer and he could do everything on the bloody ship without further training!

So that is what I am tired of... Does that mean that I don't like Archer... No it does not! I love the character more than ever but I love to see him being in charge of the crew and needing them... (so far the only person's job he hasn't tried to do is Hoshi's!)

angie you may not want to see what is in front of you but that is fine. If you want Trip to be a secondary character then that is fine as well. In the beginning of TOS McCoy was not a featured name. Later on Deforest Kelley became a featured name with Shatner and Nimoy.

The only reason Connor is not billed that way is because the listings are in alphabetical order... political correctness...

The whole ENT situation is based on the TOS dynamic... The Holy Triad and the supporting members... The guy from the Midwest, The Vulcan as his first officer, and the good old boy with a hot temper from the South... And based on temperament, Mayweather is Sulu, Hoshi is Uhura, Reed is Scotty, Phlox is actually Chekov... (talks too much in the wrong situation, brings humor to the show, the outsider that talks about his home, etc.) and yet he is still a bit unique......

 

wow! Duplicate?! you've seen stuff I haven't seen! yes I sense a Shah Rukh Khan thing here hmmm.... he's cool. have you seen Badshah? it's not preachy much, it's cleverly referential. I think you might enjoy it. it's kind of a clever Bond caper. I also loved his first film.

so have you ever seen any old stuff? I don't mean "old old". I mean sixties and seventies. stuff I was born into and grew up watching. say, like, Aakrosh, Sholay or Abhimaan or IttefaaQ? that last one is one of my all time faves: it was a dark thriller, had only two characters, NO songs, a fantastic score and kickass acting. see it if you can. it had Rajesh Khanna and Nanda in it. made in the late sixties or so.

btw, I do love Dil Se. who wouldn't love Chaaiya Chaaiya?

any of you Brits seen Bombay Dreams, btw?

 

In the episode nine (which is really episode eight) spoilers thread -- yes it is. It's exclusive to T/T'P shippers.

I think the reason I brought this up in the shippers thread is to discuss how I think some of the nasty comments are unfair. Saying you dislike Archer is fine. Saying you are tired of his hero antics is fine. (Heck, I agreed with you on some of the points.)

Continuing to go on and on about what a "fucking idiot" Archer is and how by suddenly having some lines in episode eight, how he's going to ruin ENT (which has lagging ratings) is kinda spiteful in my opinion and intended to stir things up.

By the way, pookah, my PMs with you months ago I guess didn't mean anything. So, let's clear the air here.

I don't participate in one of the boards because of the way actors and characters were treated and discussed. (T'Pol was called a bimbo, Trinneer was called a jerk, etc.) At the LC, the administrator of the board does an excellent job telling Trip bashers to can it. In fact, you and Hoshisis did make comments a few weeks ago about some Trip bashing on the LC, which she and the moderators put an end to. In fact, the moderators and posters on the TrekBBS and LC were embarrassed. Bashing Trip is uncalled for there.

So, the bottom line is -- we're trying to meet you half-way. Won't you try? If not -- there's a nasty cycle to this.

I guess this means next anti-Trip thread I see on the LC, I should encourage it. After all, I've seen some mean threads in the HT which you might encourage because you've seen one once on the LC .... It's kinda pointless.

If we can't start trying to get on with things, get along and be nice, I suggest we close the thread.

 

I agree with Commie: if "extreme language" bashing of Archer or A/T'P or even Bakula is okay by you guys, then why have such hiccups over my "pockmark" or "T/T'P is lame" comment? after all, it's just opinion, right?

I'd really like to know the difference, guys. no harm intended. somebody?

also, pookha, while Archer-hatred is not confined to T/T-ers, so isn't T/T-hatred. the grading threads should prove this, as well.

 

if things get too out of hand at hot bucky ,myst or a4t comes in and gets people to back down.

frankly i dont care what is said at lc or even the ship threads here any more..
i just mentioned it since you decided to make a comment about the thread over at hot.

and for all you know when some of the tucker fans get out of hand pm's are going out to get people to chill out.
sometimes hard to do when some just cant help puttitng fuel on the fire (not you)

i said it before . it might be a good thing were people have a place where they can vent a little.


as for general opinion of archer,, i think a lot of the non shippers went away but just watch some of the general threads some times and especially the grading ones.

there was one thread about trek captains where most of the anti archer 's were non shippers.