Calling All Shippers! Mediation Thread
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Posted by indranee:
wow! Duplicate?! you've seen stuff I haven't seen!yes I sense a Shah Rukh Khan thing here hmmm....
he's cool. have you seen Badshah? it's not preachy much, it's cleverly referential. I think you might enjoy it. it's kind of a clever Bond caper. I also loved his first film.
Yes I have seen Badshah! I thought it was pretty funny but some of the segments were a bit silly as well... I have only seen it once and and it was with subtitles...
The only one of his films that I have seen that I did not like (and everyone else I knew did) was Baazigar... For some reason I did not care for that one...
There was a great interview with him the about a week ago here CNN International Interview with Shah Rukh Khan if you (or anyone else) is interested!
I haven't seen many of the old ones but I am trying to change that!
Most of my earlier experiences were with Amitabh Bachchan (did I spell his name correctly 
) and a few films that were shown on public television... I was not able to really see the films until about 10 years ago when they were shown at local theaters and now they are shown weekly on television. I also watch AVS for interviews and reviews etc. and then I seek them out... I have A LOT of catching up to do when it comes down to classic Bollywood!
And I will start by seeing if I can find 'IttefaaQ'. I have never heard of it but it sounds intriguing! [/b]btw, I do love Dil Se. who wouldn't love Chaaiya Chaaiya?
Sad thing is that I have that video segment on my computer so I can watch it when the mood strikes me!
^ I don't think you understand, pookha. What happened six months ago or three months ago isn't the problem. I don't care that [insert person here] rated Archer unfavorably. I care about what's happening right here and now, and how it affects the meager truce we've built.
Posted by indranee:
btw, remember any names or have they all melted into one BIG song and dance around a tree?
I don't remember the names, no... I'm not familiar with Hindi (is it?) and the names doesn't stick unfortunataly. But the ones shown here are new ones, on this side of the millenia.
If you like, make a list of your favorites and I'll see if I can get hold of them and watch them. I might already have seen a few, but what the heck!
Well, actually what happended in the past do have an impact on what happens right now. If it didn't we wouldn't have this conversation right now. I know it isn't always easy to let go of things from the past but it has to be done or we will never really be at peace here. And this goes for everyone.
I didn't joke when I said we might need a place where we could get to know each other outside the 'shipper preference. One of the things I think is a big contribution to why these things come up all the time is that we don't know each other. We don't make many efforts to either. If we did I think a lot of the hostility would pass. We are all pretty passionate people around here who loves to express our selves and I think we could have a lot of fun outside of our personal crusade for our 'ship.
Now, I just have to say how much I dislike the word 'shipper...
i understand that but i still dont think one side or the other can take the moral high ground.
yeah on one hand some people are getting well emotional and then again there is some baiting going on too.
but i think one of the smartest things said is that people are just getting antsy for the season to start.
if anything the spoilers have made it worse.
makes things worse and make people nervous.
add in the real life stuff a lot of people here may be going through ( i know some for instance have loved ones in the armed services) that makes them more on edge, antsy ect.
I have to say I agree with much of what you say LLAP2U. I wouldn't go as far as saying I wanted him off the show but still, I wasn't very happy about his character in especially S2. Having said that, I think he as a character changed for the better in S3 and I want to see more of this. IMO Archer has a great potential and SB is a good actor who can make it happen.Posted by LLAP2U:
This is very true... For the first two seasons I HATED Archer's behaviour most of the time. *sorry Archerites but I had to say that*... I wanted him off of the show. I felt that he did not have command presence. I groaned at every 'speech' that he gave... But I did not hate Archer... I was trying to look at him as being new to space and optimistic...
But after the wonderful and dramatic change with the character in Season 3 I had an about face! I fell in love with Archer and even began to cheer him on! I liked that he took risks even if they were not always PC. He seemed self assured and I felt that was a man the crew could respect...
BUT... I still can't stand the SuperArcher! aspect when it rears it's ugly head. I like it when he turns to his fellow officers for advice and their expertise... This came through a lot more in Season 3.
I like a Captain that relies on his fellow crew members... Not one that can teach every crew member how to do their job... Yes he should know something about every aspect of the ship but he excells at it even though it is their speciality. He should be surprised at their findings and impressed with their knowledge instead of always saying,"Hey this is what we can do..." and the officers going "Wow! You're right sir! I never thought of that!" He should not be someone that can shoot better than his armory officer, fly better than his helmsman or withstand blows better than a Vulcan...IMO That is the SuperArcher that I can't stand to watch.
As for Kirk being SuperKirk... That was rare... I never felt that anyone was expendable in the TOS series! On ENT we could clone Archer and he could do everything on the bloody ship without further training!
So that is what I am tired of... Does that mean that I don't like Archer... No it does not! I love the character more than ever but I love to see him being in charge of the crew and needing them... (so far the only person's job he hasn't tried to do is Hoshi's!)
angie you may not want to see what is in front of you but that is fine. If you want Trip to be a secondary character then that is fine as well. In the beginning of TOS McCoy was not a featured name. Later on Deforest Kelley became a featured name with Shatner and Nimoy.
The only reason Connor is not billed that way is because the listings are in alphabetical order... political correctness...
The whole ENT situation is based on the TOS dynamic... The Holy Triad and the supporting members... The guy from the Midwest, The Vulcan as his first officer, and the good old boy with a hot temper from the South... And based on temperament, Mayweather is Sulu, Hoshi is Uhura, Reed is Scotty, Phlox is actually Chekov... (talks too much in the wrong situation, brings humor to the show, the outsider that talks about his home, etc.) and yet he is still a bit unique......
I've been thinking over this all morning since I read this post. I'll try and put my thoughts down and I hope no one will be offended...Posted by indranee:
jenna, there's a big BUT here, right?
tolerance, but only in a non-rage thread. it's okay, I'm not mad, just pointing out the subtleties in your hypothesis.
Now, I strongly agree with Jenna in what she is saying and I can understand your reaction indranee. I know Zane and Quills often debate with people in the A/T thread and why they do it it's up to them to answer to. They seem to prefer to discuss over at this thread. In fact, it's a rare occation to see any of them to post in the T/T thread although their preference seem to be T/T.
I think a lot of the people over at the T/T thread consider this thread to be a sanctuary where everyone holds the same opinion more or less. It kinda' goes with the rage thing. For this very reason I stay out of the A/T thread and nowdays I don't even read posts there. I used to but I stopped when the worst wars were going on earlier this summer. I honestly don't know how A/Ters feel about Zane and Quills posting in the A/T thread and I didn't think about it until this was brought up the other day.
I suspect the reason why Top41 said what she said was the worry that there would be a return of the pissing contest. indranee, you are known for your strong opinions and your bluntness (hope you're not offended with my choice of words here) and some people could and would get riled up about the fact that you posted in 'their' thread. Although I don't agree with your opinion I didn't find it offending or baiting and I can understand your reaction later on.
Now, what would my solution to all this be? I don't really want to hand out any of the sort but the first thing that comes into my mind is to stay out of a rage thread we don't agree with. Number two is definitely to take a deep breath and accept a post for what it is - a personal opinion. If you don't agree, fine but respect the poster behind it. It's a no-win situation to jump on the anger train and storm off to hit someone over the head with a sledgehammer. How ever much I preach the glory of T/T I will NEVER convert anyone who is a firm A/T believer and this I will have to accept. Period. Still there are things I can agree on with A/Ters (as seen over at the Home thread lately). I try to think about the walk-a-mile-in-my-shoes saying all the time and keep an opened mind.
I think we all have more in common than what divides us.
All IMO.
Efva
I think a good issue has been brought up.
I have felt at times that there is a double standard. Maybe it's just my perception, but it's why I don't state my opinion about Trip that often.
Just like some people are disappointed in Archer, I'm dissapointed in (the writing of) Trip. But this last season, Sim got the big engineering miracle. I wanted to see more last minute save-the-day engineering miracles from Trip. I was also dissapointed by the "Oops we forgot Trip's grieving for his sister, let's bring it up as repressed grief" feel of Forgotten. I was disappointed because I thought non-repressed grief coming up at times over the season, and megabadass engineering miracles for Trip would have been better IMO.
Maybe I should change my holding back. If I can state my opinion respectfully, and be open to debating it, I see no reason not to express it in non-rage threads.
One thing that has bugged me (this isn't related to Archer or Trip raging or non-raging.) is about opinions.
I saw a bumper sticker recently "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." I laughed at it.
I don't like stuff like "Pay attention, you'll see you're wrong, and that Phlox is really _____." "My opinion about ?/? is right, how can you not see it?"
I hope this comes out clearly.
IMO Trekbbs is about debating opinions. I like debating and seeing someone else's side. What I'm trying to say is opinions aren't fact. Opinions should be open to debate.
I have felt at times that there is a double standard. Maybe it's just my perception, but it's why I don't state my opinion about Trip that often.
Just like some people are disappointed in Archer, I'm dissapointed in (the writing of) Trip. But this last season, Sim got the big engineering miracle. I wanted to see more last minute save-the-day engineering miracles from Trip. I was also dissapointed by the "Oops we forgot Trip's grieving for his sister, let's bring it up as repressed grief" feel of Forgotten. I was disappointed because I thought non-repressed grief coming up at times over the season, and megabadass engineering miracles for Trip would have been better IMO.
Maybe I should change my holding back. If I can state my opinion respectfully, and be open to debating it, I see no reason not to express it in non-rage threads.
One thing that has bugged me (this isn't related to Archer or Trip raging or non-raging.) is about opinions.
I saw a bumper sticker recently "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." I laughed at it.
I don't like stuff like "Pay attention, you'll see you're wrong, and that Phlox is really _____." "My opinion about ?/? is right, how can you not see it?"
I hope this comes out clearly.
IMO Trekbbs is about debating opinions. I like debating and seeing someone else's side. What I'm trying to say is opinions aren't fact. Opinions should be open to debate.
Shippy, I think you hit the nail on the head. But, I fear no one is listening (or paying attention).
It appears we have been holding back too much. If the correct way to debate at this forum is to name call, state opinions as facts and be downright nasty to other posters (without a care), then I'll stop holding back.
As far as a place to vent. I've got an idea -- a chat room. Your conversations are private and you can vent to your buddies.
It appears we have been holding back too much. If the correct way to debate at this forum is to name call, state opinions as facts and be downright nasty to other posters (without a care), then I'll stop holding back.
As far as a place to vent. I've got an idea -- a chat room. Your conversations are private and you can vent to your buddies.
You're quite right.
I choose many times to just read what other people say and not say anything just because I don't want to add fuel to a fire so to speak. I'm trying to choose my words well but you can't always win. At one point or another someone will get worked up about what I say.
I will continue to hold on to this behavior because I honestly doesn't have to 'hit anyone over the head' with my opinion or preference. On the other hand I see no point in a discussion if there is no wiggleroom. If there is nothing about a topic two people can agree on I fail to see any good in discussing it because neither will listen and nothing would have been gained from it. Then it's better to just agree to disagree and find other things to discuss.
Very true indeed. And it doesn't make people who holds a different opinion than your self bad people either.
I react in the oposite way I guess. I walk away. If a discussion turns nasty I just leave. I see no point in throwing my self into a fight like that because it doesn't contribute to anything. I take a deep breath and have a fag and that's it. Although I feel very strongly about these things I also try and remind myself that this isn't RL stuff. I can get all worked up about pollution but I would never let myself get that worked up about this. 1, I come here because I like Star Trek in general and ENT in particular and 2, this is fiction we're talking about. In a few years ENT will be history so what's the point of taking things so seriously?
As for the venting... I guess there is a lot of venting going on already on both sides which of course is a good thing.
All IMO.
So people called Archer names..did anyone respond?
While you took a pot shot at T/T I don't recall anyone responding to you. In fact the only reason I brought it up was to point out one of the reasons why the T/Ter's were so uncomfortable with you in their thread.
You came into our thread to defend Archer no less..did anyone swear at you or tell you to get out?
I don't think anyone had a hiccup at the things you said, but there was plenty of reason to do so.
Hiding behind it's 'my opinion' is crap. Everyone here knows the things that will rile the other side.
someone DID tell me to get out Blah. plus they called the mod in. that is what I meant. we don't do that, USUALLY, when someone comes into the A/T thread and preaches T/T, whether it be Zane or Quills or even Hoshisis. well, at least, I don't get bugged unless someone calls me "doll".
yes, when it happens, someone responds (usually it's me or angie or Tami or 'shippy). then all hell may or may not break lose, depending on whether it's a full moon.
I guess what Commie was trying to say was that Archerites who may not like Tucker don't usually voice their displeasure with the character in quite such "colorful metaphors", shall we say?
and that when it continually happens on the other side (Archer being called stupid and an idiot and hateful and how people wanna puke when he comes on screen etc etc), and we try to defend him AND don't turn the tables onto the other side, THEN -- and after a while of "taking this on the chin" -- it leaves a bad taste in our collective mouths. let it be on record AGAIN though, that I am not one of the people who dislike Trip. I used to love him in season 1 and 2, and I still like him although I don't think he's been written well this season. and yes I do like the actor, pockmark and all.
well, both Bizmaark and DAK asked me to leave (yes, politely and DAK's was veiled, but you'd have to be a dunce not to know the meaning behind their words). and also the mod was called in after a panic button was hit etc, in hopes that I be asked to can it.
listen, it's no big deal. can we not go thru this any more? I think Ulva and LLap2U and Witchie and Commie have established that we need to not take each others' words so very much to heart.
how about this? I promise not to preach A/T'P in the T/T thread. but if I see Archer being lynched (my fave character), I will say something. NOT rude, NOT "baiting", but SOMEthing. but I will be poilte and keep it to a minimum of posts and only answer the nice replies.
we usually don't dump on Trip in our thread, but if we do, you can do the same. how's that?
so how about it? can you (or any of you) meet us halfway?
Hey it works for me.
Archer very rarely even comes up in the T/T thread. If Archer's being lynched in our thread it's quite likely one of us will say something and move back on topic though.
Discussion of him in our thread is a hot button because some like him and some hate him..so we generally avoid bringing him up unless it's a comparision type situation like you saw.
Archer very rarely even comes up in the T/T thread. If Archer's being lynched in our thread it's quite likely one of us will say something and move back on topic though.
Discussion of him in our thread is a hot button because some like him and some hate him..so we generally avoid bringing him up unless it's a comparision type situation like you saw.
To me it doesn't matter if anyone dislikes Trip. I'm not going to change my POV anyway. So what? I don't feel threatened in any way if someone doesn't share my preference. If anyone voices a dislike I can shrug my shoulders and just think 'too bad' and that's it.
I hope you mean Archer for the T/Ters...
Ahem... Seriously, to me it doesn't matter what you guys talk about. Let the conversation take it's course in both places and let it rest at that.
I hope you mean Archer for the T/Ters...Ahem... Seriously, to me it doesn't matter what you guys talk about. Let the conversation take it's course in both places and let it rest at that.
Posted by indranee:
someone DID tell me to get out Blah. plus they called the mod in. that is what I meant. we don't do that, USUALLY, when someone comes into the A/T thread and preaches T/T, whether it be Zane or Quills or even Hoshisis. well, at least, I don't get bugged unless someone calls me "doll".
I'd like to know why my name has been mentioned when I don't even go in the A/T threads.
In fact this is the first time this weekend I've actually posted a lot because its my first bloody weekend off in ages. (Damn I need a new job - more money less work) 
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