Caithlin Dar - Backstory?

[SonicRanger]

Caithlin Dar, the Romulan ambassador in TFF, is an oddity.

She has a human-sounding name, including both a first and last name. "Caithlin" is just one letter off from a common human name today: Caitlin. "Dar" could also be a human last name. Other Romulans have names like: Chulak, Tomalak, Vreenak, Konsab, Parem, etc.

Her eyebrows are "mild" for a Romulan too, and only her extensive use of funky eye makeup (also unseen among other Romulans) makes her look like anything other than a woman with strangely plucked eyebrows. Her hair and dress are also unique among the Romulans we've seen.

She seems eager to be on Nimbus III, or she is always an optimist. The other two ambassadors -- St. John Talbot and Korrd -- seem like burn-out old men who might have fallen out of favor with their respective governments, and they seem to realize that the only benefit of their positions is an excess of time to drink. She strides in there, though, like she wants to be there... or is she just another disgraced official sent out to the corner of the galaxy?

So -- any ideas about what the deal is with Caithlin Dar? Not fully Romulan? A rich, socialite Romulan woman who likes high fashion and with the political connections to get an ambassadorship (but not important enough to get a better post)? What else?

 

[FalTorPan]

The novelization offered some insight into her past, as I recall -- but I don't recall what was stated in the novelization.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I don't remember, either... Maybe she just likes driving Romulan and human men crazy...

 

[SonicRanger]

Even if the novel did provide some "explanation" for her, it likely just represents the author's need to offer one... or pad the novel a bit. Either way, it doesn't necessarily represent what Bennett, Shatner, and the other filmmakers had in mind, unless there was some sort of "film bible" to which J.M. Dillard had access... I know that the novelists (novelizationists?) often work from script drafts, but I can't imagine a discussion where they talk about her eyebrows or human-sounding name. But who knows what the Shat thinks makes a good movie?

 

[Unicron]

According to the novelization, her grandfather was human, hence why she had a human name. She volunteered for the Nimbus assignment, which was considered naive and idealistic. St. John Talbot (John Warner) was a former Federation diplomat, who was very successful until one mission where his efforts at negotiation resulted in the death of a hostage. Talbot, realizing he had been arrogant and overconfident, became a depressed alcoholic (Caitlin says such people are rare in the 23rd century, but do exist). Korrd was a Klingon politician who'd fallen from favor with the High Council.

 

[Amaris]

Necronomicon said:
According to the novelization, her grandfather was human, hence why she had a human name. She volunteered for the Nimbus assignment, which was considered naive and idealistic. St. John Talbot (John Warner) was a former Federation diplomat, who was very successful until one mission where his efforts at negotiation resulted in the death of a hostage. Talbot, realizing he had been arrogant and overconfident, became a depressed alcoholic (Caitlin says such people are rare in the 23rd century, but do exist). Korrd was a Klingon politician who'd fallen from favor with the High Council.

That's what I remember, too. I liked that backstory and felt it was adequate to explain our friends at the beginning of the movie.

J.

 

[Nebusj]

SonicRanger said:
Caithlin Dar, the Romulan ambassador in TFF, is an oddity.

Plus she gets this hefty introduction suggesting she's going to be a major character in the story. I think Roger Ebert's review even points out this merry band of ambassadors peek back in from time to time in the story as if they'd been carrying on with their subplots unaware they've been cut from the movie. I'm curious if what's left is remnants of earlier drafts where the identities and personalities of the ambassadors actually made a difference.

 

[Nerys Myk]

SonicRanger said:
She has a human-sounding name, including both a first and last name. "Caithlin" is just one letter off from a common human name today: Caitlin. "Dar" could also be a human last name. Other Romulans have names like: Chulak, Tomalak, Vreenak, Konsab, Parem, etc.

Trek is full of alien names that have parallels on Earth: Spock, Chang, Kang, Mara, Kira, Odo, Dax, Jazdia, Phlox, Decius,Tal, Surak....

 

[WillsBabe]

It's a while since I saw the film, however I always thought her first line was odd. IIRC she says, "Gentlemen I am Caithlin Dar." It might be me but the emphasis seems to be on the I, as if she's the person they've been waiting for, or is famous, notorious, whatever. And yet there seems nothing in the film to support the line, or at least her delivery of it. Just my two penneth.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Pixie Dark said:
And yet there seems nothing in the film to support the line, or at least her delivery of it.

At the time, IIRC, there was criticism of her being yet another beautiful model-turned-wanna-be-Trek-actress, following in the footsteps of Persis Khambatta (TMP) and Cathie Shirrif (ST III).

It was Director Shatner's decision that Caithlin Dar not have forehead ridges like the TNG Romulans.

 

[Amaris]

Pixie Dark said:
It's a while since I saw the film, however I always thought her first line was odd. IIRC she says, "Gentlemen I am Caithlin Dar." It might be me but the emphasis seems to be on the I, as if she's the person they've been waiting for, or is famous, notorious, whatever. And yet there seems nothing in the film to support the line, or at least her delivery of it. Just my two penneth.

I do recall (from memory so it may not be quite as accurate):

Caithlin: "Greetings, Gentlemen. I'm Caithlin Dar."

St. John Talbot: "Oh yes, our new Romulan Representative. Welcome to Paradise City, my dear, the so called 'Planet of Galactic Peace'. I'm St. John Talbot and this is my charming companion, Korrd."

Korrd: <<belches>>

Caithlin Dar: "I expect that's Klingon for hello."


I don't think there was any intent of "I'm famous or notable", but I do think she expected them to be a little more, shall we say, formal. It seemed to me like she was pretty much all business as soon as she stepped through the door, and didn't quite expect the scene she got instead. I'm just guessing of course, throwing my wheat penny in with your two cents.


J.

 

[SonicRanger]

Necronomicon said:
According to the novelization, her grandfather was human, hence why she had a human name...

So now we need an explanation of how a Romulan and human met and had a child, what, 40 or 50 years before the film? That would be 20 or 30 years before "Balance of Terrror" -- or 80 years after the Earth-Romulan war.

Of course, we also need an explanation too of why anyone cares anymore about Nimbus III enough to send even disgraced diplomats there.

 

[David cgc]

Nebusj said:

SonicRanger said:
Caithlin Dar, the Romulan ambassador in TFF, is an oddity.

Plus she gets this hefty introduction suggesting she's going to be a major character in the story. I think Roger Ebert's review even points out this merry band of ambassadors peek back in from time to time in the story as if they'd been carrying on with their subplots unaware they've been cut from the movie. I'm curious if what's left is remnants of earlier drafts where the identities and personalities of the ambassadors actually made a difference.

I'd heard there was quite a bit of stuff cut from the film. There was supposed to be a bit where Admiral Bob tells Kirk that the Romulans don't care what happens to their ambassador, so the Klingons are the only ones he has to worry about. Also, an extended version of the dossier scene where we see Talbot's and Dar's files, and not just Korrd's.

 

[Therin of Andor]

SonicRanger said:
So now we need an explanation of how a Romulan and human met and had a child, what, 40 or 50 years before the film? That would be 20 or 30 years before "Balance of Terrror" -- or 80 years after the Earth-Romulan war.

ENT showed that Romulans were able to pass in all manner of social and political circles - as Vulcans! - because not even the Vulcans realised they were members of the sundered race. At least one ST novel, too, has planted a Romulan on Earth before their identities were known.

 

[Aldo]

Nebusj said:

SonicRanger said:
Caithlin Dar, the Romulan ambassador in TFF, is an oddity.

Plus she gets this hefty introduction suggesting she's going to be a major character in the story. I think Roger Ebert's review even points out this merry band of ambassadors peek back in from time to time in the story as if they'd been carrying on with their subplots unaware they've been cut from the movie. I'm curious if what's left is remnants of earlier drafts where the identities and personalities of the ambassadors actually made a difference.

You know, I never got Ebert's criticism here. The characters are there to serve two purposes. The first purpose is to set up the backstory of the planet, so we understand why it's such a big deal that there are three different diplomats there. The second purpose is to bring Kirk into the story, and this is how they do it.

Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[Nebusj]

SuperAldoX said:

Nebusj said:
I think Roger Ebert's review even points out this merry band of ambassadors peek back in from time to time in the story as if they'd been carrying on with their subplots unaware they've been cut from the movie. I'm curious if what's left is remnants of earlier drafts where the identities and personalities of the ambassadors actually made a difference.

You know, I never got Ebert's criticism here. The characters are there to serve two purposes. The first purpose is to set up the backstory of the planet, so we understand why it's such a big deal that there are three different diplomats there. The second purpose is to bring Kirk into the story, and this is how they do it.

Seems pretty clear to me.

But the plot point of having Kirk involved in the story was satisfied by the fact of hostage-taking at all; it wouldn't be in this movie otherwise. That there are multiple diplomats there and why is also explained -- reasonably succinctly -- in dialogue among Kirk and his crew and Admiral, and why Sybok needed to take the ambassadors hostage is also explained in the scene where he meets them.

It makes a slight bit of difference to the story that Koord used to be somebody and now isn't; that's established when Kirk and Spock talk about the identities of the hostages and Kirk feels sorry for the guy.

So, what do these ambassadors' names matter? What do their personalities matter? We didn't learn in The Motion Picture that it was Commander Branch's last week before retirement -- we didn't even learn his name -- since all he needed to do was pass exposition on and then die. We do learn something about wht's got Decker and Ilia there since they're relevant characters.

In The Voyage Home we don't learn anything about the President of the Federation who's somehow in charge of Kirk's trial. We do learn something about Gillian Taylor, because it matters that she's fallen in love with the whales and she's thought likely to do something crazy if she knew they were being sent away.

Now, it's nice for a sake-of-authenticity point that we see more of the characters than we strictly need to and that the value of Koord's being there later in the story is obscured by Dar and Talbot getting so much dialogue establishing character and backstory. But what it amounts to is Dar and Talbot get introduced as if they're going to have a meaningful subplot, and we see little peeks of that, but they're not actually in the movie. Admittedly, The Final Frontier is rather kind to its minor characters, and gives near all of them except that guy digging holes at the start more to do than the minimum required to establish that they exist.

 

[WillsBabe]

J. Allen said:
throwing my wheat penny in with your two cents.

We almost have enough in the kitty to buy ourselves a drink.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Nebusj said:
We didn't learn in The Motion Picture that it was Commander Branch's last week before retirement -- we didn't even learn his name -- since all he needed to do was pass exposition on and then die.

Because the line "Hello Branch, this is Kirk, Enterprise. What do you have for us?" was dropped. (Novelization, p 63.)

And he was a bit young to retire!

 

[Aldo]

Nebusj said:
But the plot point of having Kirk involved in the story was satisfied by the fact of hostage-taking at all; it wouldn't be in this movie otherwise. That there are multiple diplomats there and why is also explained -- reasonably succinctly -- in dialogue among Kirk and his crew and Admiral, and why Sybok needed to take the ambassadors hostage is also explained in the scene where he meets them.

It makes a slight bit of difference to the story that Koord used to be somebody and now isn't; that's established when Kirk and Spock talk about the identities of the hostages and Kirk feels sorry for the guy.


Now, it's nice for a sake-of-authenticity point that we see more of the characters than we strictly need to and that the value of Koord's being there later in the story is obscured by Dar and Talbot getting so much dialogue establishing character and backstory. But what it amounts to is Dar and Talbot get introduced as if they're going to have a meaningful subplot, and we see little peeks of that, but they're not actually in the movie. Admittedly, The Final Frontier is rather kind to its minor characters, and gives near all of them except that guy digging holes at the start more to do than the minimum required to establish that they exist.

It is a lean film, that's for sure. When it all comes down to it though, only four characters get any real development, the trio, and Sybok...by chance of being the villian, and therefore an important character to the story.

Shatner does mention, in his book Movie Memories that Bennet did a lot of cutting to Shatner's film because Paramount wanted it under 2 hours long. That implies at least 20 minutes were cut out of the film, in movie terms, that's a lot of stuff.

 

[Corbyn]

Personally, I thought that there was a devoloping relationship implied between St. John Talbot and Caithlin Dar. Look at the way he's got his arm around her in the final scenes of the movie. Perhaps it's not a romantic relationship--more of a father/daughter thing, I think--but it seems that they've become quite close quite quickly.

And there's quite a bit of evidence that a LOT was cut from the movie. After all, why does one hire a known, very popular, very distinctive character actor like David Warner for what turns out to be such a small role on-screen? The running time of the movie is 106 minutes, which makes it the second-shortest STAR TREK movie (STAR TREK III is one minute shorter).

As to Miss Dar's grandfather being a human...well, why not? Maybe her grandfather had been abducted by the Romulans for some reason, and assimilated into their society somehow. It happened to (the alternate version) of Tasha Yar, from NextGen. She even had a daughter, Sela.