Cadet to Captain...NOT!!!

[perigee]

The whole question is cattywhompus - what Bashir did or did not do is immaterial, considering whatever he did he did 100 years after TOS. What was part of the Academy's capability at that time is up for debate.

And, hey - have we all forgotten about Captain April? He had the first 5 years in command of the Enterprise, before Pike...

 

[Captain MAJ]

The whole question is cattywhompus - what Bashir did or did not do is immaterial, considering whatever he did he did 100 years after TOS. What was part of the Academy's capability at that time is up for debate.

And, hey - have we all forgotten about Captain April? He had the first 5 years in command of the Enterprise, before Pike...

Oh Didn't you hear? The Shat plays Captain April in the new movie.

 

[BenRoethig]

The whole question is cattywhompus - what Bashir did or did not do is immaterial, considering whatever he did he did 100 years after TOS. What was part of the Academy's capability at that time is up for debate.

And, hey - have we all forgotten about Captain April? He had the first 5 years in command of the Enterprise, before Pike...

With the Enterprise being launched 17 years later in the altered timeline, April is not a factor.

Of course, but that would mean he *does* keep the rank of Captain past the end of the movie, unlike what Bolio was suggesting.

The big question is which timeline does that take place in, the altered timeline or a restored TOS timeline.

 

[pookha]

The whole question is cattywhompus - what Bashir did or did not do is immaterial, considering whatever he did he did 100 years after TOS. What was part of the Academy's capability at that time is up for debate.

And, hey - have we all forgotten about Captain April? He had the first 5 years in command of the Enterprise, before Pike...

With the Enterprise being launched 17 years later in the altered timeline, April is not a factor.

Of course, but that would mean he *does* keep the rank of Captain past the end of the movie, unlike what Bolio was suggesting.

The big question is which timeline does that take place in, the altered timeline or a restored TOS timeline.

or the time line suggested by one of the film were enterprise may have been launched far later then anyone suspected.



as for april even if tas is totally canon i dont even know if they gave the length of time april served.

 

[perigee]

ADDITION:

The realization of this came in another thread, but it belongs here:

In the latest trailer, there's a soundbyte: "You're the captain now, Mr. Kirk." Clearly a training exercise. The visual of Kirk taking the center chair was silent. I now truly wonder if that shot was from a training exercise, and not so symbolic as we saw it to be initially..

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

And, hey - have we all forgotten about Captain April?

Yes, because he's never been canon (he appeared only in TAS and licensed materials). It appears that, fittingly, Christopher Pike is the first captain of Enterprise.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

ADDITION:

The realization of this came in another thread, but it belongs here:

In the latest trailer, there's a soundbyte: "You're the captain now, Mr. Kirk." Clearly a training exercise. The visual of Kirk taking the center chair was silent. I now truly wonder if that shot was from a training exercise, and not so symbolic as we saw it to be initially..

Well considering after Kirk sits in the chair McCoy has a WTF look on his face and that Nero contacts them at some point in the film while Kirk still has the black shirt might indicate that it isn't a test unless time traveling Romulans from the future who waste Federation fleets is somethin that Starfleet would make a simulation about.

 

[perigee]

ADDITION:

The realization of this came in another thread, but it belongs here:

In the latest trailer, there's a soundbyte: "You're the captain now, Mr. Kirk." Clearly a training exercise. The visual of Kirk taking the center chair was silent. I now truly wonder if that shot was from a training exercise, and not so symbolic as we saw it to be initially..

Well considering after Kirk sits in the chair McCoy has a WTF look on his face and that Nero contacts them at some point in the film while Kirk still has the black shirt might indicate that it isn't a test unless time traveling Romulans from the future who waste Federation fleets is somethin that Starfleet would make a simulation about.

Yeah - finally got to check the HD version on the good comp, and those are some well used boots he's wearing. So chuck that. I Like Lt. Arex - lookin guy in the background... shows what you miss on a postage stamp sized screen...

 

[M'Sharak]

ADDITION:

The realization of this came in another thread, but it belongs here:

In the latest trailer, there's a soundbyte: "You're the captain now, Mr. Kirk." Clearly a training exercise. The visual of Kirk taking the center chair was silent. I now truly wonder if that shot was from a training exercise, and not so symbolic as we saw it to be initially..

The shot of James Kirk sitting in the captain's chair takes place on the Enterprise bridge. The bridge for the Kobayashi Maru

Spoiler: simulation

is a redress of the Kelvin bridge -- there's absolutely no way of mistaking one for the other and the trading card series and and the dossier on the official site both show Kirk wearing a uniform clearly not the "black shirt" he wears while taking his seat.

As for "You're the captain now, Mr. Kirk" soundbite, I have a notion that the voice is addressing not James T. but George Samuel Kirk, Sr. (which would also not be a simulation.)

 

[SG-17]

Well nuKirk probably has almost the same level of kick-ass that Shat-Kirk had, so if he wanted to be Captain, then he became Captain.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Well nuKirk probably has almost the same level or kick-ass that Shat-Kirk had, so if he wanted to be Captain, then he became Captain.

Plus from McCoy's reaction when Kirk takes the captain's chair Kirk will probably have some explanation that will convince everyone.

 

[BorgPhil]

I was just re-reading TrekMovie's analysis of the 20min screening they got last year, and:

Pike has accepted an offer to go to Nero’s ship to negotiate but tells Kirk and Sulu they are going to jump out of the shuttle on the way in order to shut down the drilling beam coming from a platform Nero has extended into Vulcan’s atmosphere. Pike puts Spock in command and makes Kirk first officer (Spock is not amused).

So, realistic or not, at least it's something that Pike has done in the first place - if Kirk is acting 1st officer it's logical that he would take command if Spock left the ship, rather than Kirk just grabbing command ahead of more senior crew members.

 

[Admiral_Young]

That particular scene as well as giving me goose bumps in the trailer when I saw also bugged me like it seems to have done most everyone else as well. The first trailer shows Kirk in his command gold uniform at some if you all recall as he zips past Spock on the bridge and he quirps something to him that I've now forgotten. McCoy's expression after black shirted Kirk takes the command chair is indeed a WTF do you think you're doing hot shot kind of reaction. I'm curious as to why Spock doesn't take command during the crisis despite his lack of desire for a starship command. I know from reading some bits and pieces on the web that Old Spock comes back and says that Kirk has to be on the ship and convince his younger self (Spock) to let Kirk take command. I like the Kobyashi Maru suggestion....either way it will indeed be interesting to see how this scene plays out.

 

[JuanBolio]

That particular scene as well as giving me goose bumps in the trailer when I saw also bugged me like it seems to have done most everyone else as well. The first trailer shows Kirk in his command gold uniform at some if you all recall as he zips past Spock on the bridge and he quirps something to him that I've now forgotten. McCoy's expression after black shirted Kirk takes the command chair is indeed a WTF do you think you're doing hot shot kind of reaction. I'm curious as to why Spock doesn't take command during the crisis despite his lack of desire for a starship command. I know from reading some bits and pieces on the web that Old Spock comes back and says that Kirk has to be on the ship and convince his younger self (Spock) to let Kirk take command. I like the Kobyashi Maru suggestion....either way it will indeed be interesting to see how this scene plays out.

The quick and dirty of it is the Spock is emotionally unstable at this age and is unsuited for command. Kirk proves it.

 

[USS Renegade]

You know, there's the teeny-tiny chance we will find out if it makes sense when we actually see this movie.

Come on now, don't be silly! That makes no sense. Form an opinion and conclusion based on actual evidence? Where do you think you are???

Indeed, that is a most disgusting concept, I'm offended just hearing it.

 

[USS Renegade]

I don't care if it's Kirk. *Nobody* makes Captain that fast. Not even if they're the best officer in the Fleet (which Kirk probably is not).

As for 'Lieutenant' Kirk taking command: Is Scotty already on the ship at this point? He's a qualified command officer, we all know it. So Scotty should have been able to take command. (I don't think Kirk is a cadet. As has been pointed out, cadets wear RED uniforms, which Kirk is not doing when he is on the ship)

Aha, Scotty in TOS is a qualified command officer. This is pre TOS, so he doesn't necessarily have his line officer qualifications yet. Also, if the engine room is being ripped up, well, you know damn well Scotty is gonna be with his engines the whole time...

And, here is the thing... No one makes the rank of captain that fast. But the commander of a ship is referred to as Captain. There is only one requirement to be the Captain of a ship. It is not rank, it is not experience, and it is not being the best officer in the fleet... The deciding factor is the willingness of the crew to take your orders. Period. If everyone is running around like chickens with their heads cut off and a cadet starts barking reasonable orders in a commanding tone, the crew starts responding.

Good officers are made, not born... Good leaders are born, not made. Kirk is enough of a leader that he could get a crew to follow his lead if he was a Ferengi.

 

[urbandk]

Well nuKirk probably has almost the same level of kick-ass that Shat-Kirk had, so if he wanted to be Captain, then he became Captain.

yeah the dossier on ST.com says he is some kind of martial arts specialist. i am hoping for some hand to hand ass kicking

 

[USS Renegade]

Why in the world would McCoy be at the academy?

Learning how not to flush his ass out the zero-gravity toilet. A medical degree doesn't make someone into a space explorer.

McCoy isn't a space explorer he's a doctor. He's there to heel sick people. Sure he may go through a short officer training program, but not a four year program.

An institution like Starfleet has no reason to teach medicine. There are already plenty of institutions that do that. Star fleet's focus is teaching how to operate and maintain starships. Something you probably can't learn anywhere else.

I disagree. Starfleet is full of explorers and scientists as well. There is probably a lot of advanced science and medical technology that Starfleet has access to that the general public does not yet have. The cutting edge research stuff that you have to spend time learning how to use.

On top of that, it would be irresponsible to have an average doctor on a Starship. In modern times, doctors go to school for years and they only have to worry about HUMAN psysiology. I don't think 4 years is too much time for extensive xenobiology courses, studies of alien medical porcedures, etc.

And THEN a Chief Medical Officer is going to need survival training for different enviornments. Bones had boots down on strange new worlds quite alot, if you remember. Yeah, there are LOTS of reasons for a doctor to have to go through 4 years of SF Academy.

 

[USS Renegade]

McCoy isn't a space explorer he's a doctor.

As we know from almost forty years of this thing, he's both - and does just about everything that other officers do except take command of the vessel.

Which is why he is inferior to Beverly Crusher.

 

[USS Renegade]

Kirk makes captain in this movie? SO WHAT!!???

Of course he will make Captain. We've always known that. The question is how quickly he does it.

Going straight from Cadet to Captain is quite obviously bullshit. Nobody does that. Having Kirk do it would kill the film.

No, wrong. It is not "quite obviously bullshit" because doing things that NOBODY DOES is EXACTLY what James T. Kirk does.



Plus, you are looking at what happens in a normal situation as compared to what happens in this situation. Think about this scenario...

Spock, one of your best young officers is vouching for Kirk. Spock, the son of one of the most distinguished diplomats in the Federation, tells you how he met a version of himself from the future. How the disasters that were caused were done so by a time traveler who came back to destroy Kirk as an infant, because he was so amazing in his time defeating him as an adult was not possible. Tales of what an amazing captain Kirk was, and how the Federation of the future would not shine half as brightly without James T. Kirk commanding a starship.

Kirk gives you glimpses of his incredible ability when he takes over command of the Enterprise. Kirk also has the backing of Christopher Pike, one of the most respected captain in the fleet, and the echo of Spock's words... That commanding a starship is Jim Kirk's first, best destiny.

You know what you do then? You give that man a f'n starship!