Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer

[tomalak301]

Underneath

One of the things I've been loving about Both Buffy and Angel is the whole nature of hell vs. heaven thing. This is the third episode I can think of where the idea of earth being hell was raised, though Lindsey frames it as what the Senior partners are doing underneath while Angel is working right into their hands. I also liked that Lindsey's hell would look like Heaven to you and me, even though I had a strange Desperate Housewives vibe watching that. While Lindsey is this dark character in Angel, his Hell is that of a family man in a suburban area. That's kind of appropriate.

Illyria and Wesley continue to have awesome scenes together and Denisof and Acker really have been killing it during these stretch of shows. Really liked that scene on the rooftop where Illyria is like your world is too small and you live in places that are smaller. Man the writers really do a great job developing what other dimensions would be like, even if we don't see them. They really know this universe inside and out.

So now Gunn is in the hell dimension. That's the price of atonement.

This wasn't my favorite episode of this stretch but sometimes all you need is that bridge to keep the arc going. This was a nice calm down episode after the last two were really emotionally impactful.

Origins

So Connor gets his memories back but doesn't turn evil? Did the new memories and the old memories just mesh together and Connor decided he liked normal? I was a little confused as to how this episode ended.

Other than that, they finally made an episode where I didn't want to punch Connor in the face. I also liked this episode continuing the theme this season of sometimes prices are way too damned high. You have people doing things without reading the fine print, and this time it comes back to Angel with Wesley using hindsight and breaking the box. I wasn't sure I liked seeing Sarhjon again, but they did tie things well with the season 3 arc.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

A Hole in the World

I think I understand why they had Smile Time be the episode before this. Man AHITW was so very sad, but Acker and Denisof were incredible in those final scenes. Watching Fred's slow deterioration felt like a punch in the gut, and then when we see Illyria fully manifest herself was like twisting the knife. I'm not sure what else to say about this episode other than we finally know why Knox took a liking to Fred way back in the premiere.

Also, @grendelsbayne, I hope the scenes you were talking about were Acker and Denisof's scenes. I wasn't entirely sure where the whole "Home" thing comes in though.

Yeah, the scenes between them in this episode but also for the rest of the show - Wesley and Illyria is a really special onscreen relationship. I forgot the song was actually in the next episode - the two of them work so perfectly together that I tend to think of them as one big thing.

Origins

So Connor gets his memories back but doesn't turn evil? Did the new memories and the old memories just mesh together and Connor decided he liked normal? I was a little confused as to how this episode ended.

Other than that, they finally made an episode where I didn't want to punch Connor in the face. I also liked this episode continuing the theme this season of sometimes prices are way too damned high. You have people doing things without reading the fine print, and this time it comes back to Angel with Wesley using hindsight and breaking the box. I wasn't sure I liked seeing Sarhjon again, but they did tie things well with the season 3 arc.

Yeah, the new memories give him enough stability that he can deal with the old ones without going psycho - as well as clear prove that Angel actually cares about him, which he never really believed before. Like I said, season 5 is where Connor actually becomes a good character.

 

[tomalak301]

Time Bomb

Well, looks like Illyria's power is gone, so I guess she's mare mortal now. This was a great episode for her, and to kind of finish her sense of confusion about the world around her so we can get to the coming apocalypse. With only 3 episodes left in the season (And I know the show was cancelled prematurely) they kind of need to get on with it. I really enjoyed the time travel elements, and Wesley has been great as usual.

Also nice they pulled Gunn out of the holding dimension. The more episodes I watched the more that place really was hell. Having his heart gutted out every day for two weeks? Ewww.

 

[tomalak301]

The Girl in Question

Well that was a big manipulative tease. An episode about Buffy but we actually don’t get to see Buffy for one last time. Spike and Angel pining for Buffy makes me wish they would grow up. Ok maybe Spike would be the one pining considering he and Buffy were close to love, but Angel? What about Cordelia? I felt like this one was just one last adventure with Spike and Angel before the coming apocalypse.

I did like the story with Wesley and Illyria though. Man she is kinda creepy and now she wants to learn about Fred and her relationship with Wes. She kinda reminds me of 7 of 9 right after she was rescued from the Borg.

I also did like Spike and Angel’s banter, especially when they were giving examples of saving the world. As for the episode as a whole, it wasn’t a favorite but it was fine.

 

[Turtletrekker]

FWIW-- (not sure if you have any intention of reading the comics)

Spoiler: Buffy season 8 comics

That wasn't really Buffy, it was a decoy. Her "relationship" with the Immortal was retconned almost immediately when season 8 started.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Yeah, I never liked the Rome thing much. But as I recall, there wasn't a lot of choice. You can't end Angel (and Spike)'s story with no further mention of Buffy at all, but SMG just wasn't interested in coming back even for a single episode.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Actually, Sarah Michelle Gellar was never supposed to be in this episode, they wanted her in episode 21.

And that wasn't supposed to be Andrew who answered the door, that was supposed to be Dawn. A last-minute scheduling conflict prevented Michelle Trachtenberg from appearing, so they went back to the Andrew well again.

 

[tomalak301]

Yeah, I never liked the Rome thing much. But as I recall, there wasn't a lot of choice. You can't end Angel (and Spike)'s story with no further mention of Buffy at all, but SMG just wasn't interested in coming back even for a single episode.

You can mention Buffy without centering the episode Around her though. They’ve done it before. Like I said this felt like a manipulative tease.

I would have loved to see Dawn answer the door. I guess this was another one of those no one wanted to come back so let’s use Andrew again.

 

[.:: TSN ::.]

Shells
...
In two episodes the writers have made me really interested in where this Illyria character is going.
...

It really is amazing how they managed to kill one great character and create even greater character in such a short time. It really shows how good actor Acker is. Transitions between Illyria and Fred are amazing. Even when there is no Illyria makeup on Acker you can tell the difference.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Why didn’t any of the Buffy cast not want to show up?

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Why didn’t any of the Buffy cast not want to show up?

Sarah was supposedly concerned about being typecast around that time. I remember that being part of the reason Buffy was canceled. Also, she was always a bit more standoffish towards the whole franchise/fandom thing than the others from the beginning. And she had a bad experience in season 6.

Michelle was going to come back, it was just scheduling issues with her. I don't know if anyone else was asked.

 

[JD]

This purely my own guess, but Tom Lenk was one of the later editions to the cast, so I could see him not being as burned out as the others who had been at it for 7 years by that point.
I was really pissed when they first killed Fred, but once they started to develop Illyria, I ended really liking her and didn't mind losing Fred so much.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

@tomalak301 I recommend watching Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog. It was a webseries written by Joss starring Neil Patrick Harris, Nathan Fillion, and Felicia Day. I saw it for the first time last night and now have all the songs stuck in my head!

 

[tomalak301]

@tomalak301 I recommend watching Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog. It was a webseries written by Joss starring Neil Patrick Harris, Nathan Fillion, and Felicia Day. I saw it for the first time last night and now have all the songs stuck in my head!

I don't think it's streaming anywhere though. Also, when I get back from my trip I'm probably going to be seeing Stranger Things, followed by Orange is the New Black, and then I might actually get into Dollhouse. As a fan of Orphan Black, I might really like Dollhouse.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

@tomalak301 I recommend watching Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog. It was a webseries written by Joss starring Neil Patrick Harris, Nathan Fillion, and Felicia Day. I saw it for the first time last night and now have all the songs stuck in my head!

The dvd has a ton of great extras on it, including an entire musical commentary track featuring Joss and other BTS people single as well as the actors and fan submitted 'Evil League of Evil Audition videos', several of which are surprisingly good and one of which is I think arguably as well made or better as the movie/series itself.

The ELE videos should probably be on youtube, actually. Hang on... Yep, here's the really good one:

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[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I don't think it's streaming anywhere though.

Definitely don’t check on Vimeo or Dailymotion to look for that single 42 minute video which most certainly is not available in it’s entirety.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Definitely don’t check on Vimeo or Dailymotion to look for that single 42 minute video which most certainly is not available in it’s entirety.

I absolutely swear that I will do no such thing.

 

[JD]

If you're willing to fork out the money, it is available for $19.99 on the US Amazon.

 

[tomalak301]

I just watched Doctor Horrible. That was pretty good with some great music. I was watching the credits and it was like anyone who worked on Buffy or Angel was in this thing. Not a bad 42 minutes. It's a tight nit group, Mutant Enemy Productions.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I just watched Doctor Horrible. That was pretty good with some great music. I was watching the credits and it was like anyone who worked on Buffy or Angel was in this thing. Not a bad 42 minutes.

You should do the entire Mutant Enemy catalog. Firefly and Serenity, The Cabin in the Woods, 2 seasons of Dollhouse and we're in the 6th season of Agents of SHIELD.