Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer
- Thread starter tomalak301
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The origins of the Slayer get explored throughout the series. However, later this season, someone says "By order of the Watcher's Council of Britain ... authority.." which pretty heavily implies that the council's authority is granted under the umbrella of The Crown or, at the very least, is affiliated with a ministry. So yes, Buffy is literally an agent of the state. And from what we can best extrapolate from the bits of history (given over the course of the show) slayers have operated under that purview since the hight of the Empire.
Buffy has no free will.
Any choice she makes will lead the slayer towards an unavoidable predetermined conflux of demon trouble.
Destiny and fate don't chu know?
Any choice she makes will lead the slayer towards an unavoidable predetermined conflux of demon trouble.
Destiny and fate don't chu know?
"Choice" is a pretty big component of this season as well. One of the episodes is even called "Choices." But it really builds on the seeds planted all the way back in "Lie to Me" where Buffy tells Ford, "You have a choice. Not a good choice. But there's always a choice." (Or some such.)
Band Candy
While I've been liking these episodes in the early going, there has been something that's been missing so far this season that I really liked in Season 2. I couldn't really tell what it is, but after watching this episode I think I know what I miss. Spike and Drusilla were really memorable last season, and as the season went on, it felt like there was more of an emotional and personal connection between Buffy and her friends and Spike and his gang. That was skyrocketed when Angel turned and it made for one hell of a season.
So far Season 3 has been kind of all over the place. I'm not really sold on Trick yet (And everytime I see him I think he's played by Marshala Ali, which isn't a bad thing) and we find out more about the Mayor in this episode. I no longer think he's a Vampire, but he could be a Demon. They seem to be talking more about Demons this season and then we saw the Mayor's stash and thinking this series was done in an era where one of the biggest things in the news was Cults (Anyone remember the Hale-bopp Comet, or am I too late on that) and it feels like this season is going to be tackling the idea of cults and stuff like that.
As for this episode, it was one I was thinking I was going to not like, but then Ethan came back and things got really interesting. I only have one word to say regarding Joyce and Giles though: ewwwwwww!!!!
Why doesn't Buffy tell Giles about Angel though. I still hope we get some kind of explanation about why he still exists.
As I'm watching the next episode i am wondering if I'm seeing another reference to TNG. Angel's Calisthenic routine looks like Worf's.
While I've been liking these episodes in the early going, there has been something that's been missing so far this season that I really liked in Season 2. I couldn't really tell what it is, but after watching this episode I think I know what I miss. Spike and Drusilla were really memorable last season, and as the season went on, it felt like there was more of an emotional and personal connection between Buffy and her friends and Spike and his gang. That was skyrocketed when Angel turned and it made for one hell of a season.
So far Season 3 has been kind of all over the place. I'm not really sold on Trick yet (And everytime I see him I think he's played by Marshala Ali, which isn't a bad thing) and we find out more about the Mayor in this episode. I no longer think he's a Vampire, but he could be a Demon. They seem to be talking more about Demons this season and then we saw the Mayor's stash and thinking this series was done in an era where one of the biggest things in the news was Cults (Anyone remember the Hale-bopp Comet, or am I too late on that) and it feels like this season is going to be tackling the idea of cults and stuff like that.
As for this episode, it was one I was thinking I was going to not like, but then Ethan came back and things got really interesting. I only have one word to say regarding Joyce and Giles though: ewwwwwww!!!!
Why doesn't Buffy tell Giles about Angel though. I still hope we get some kind of explanation about why he still exists.
As I'm watching the next episode i am wondering if I'm seeing another reference to TNG. Angel's Calisthenic routine looks like Worf's.
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I love Ethan. He's such a snake. Buffy really burns him here.
But not as much as she burns the giant snake at the end, though.
But not as much as she burns the giant snake at the end, though.
Yeah that was great. I will say the Snake was a victim of the budget this show does have though. Yes they got more money in season 3, but that Snake still looked really really fake.
Oh. No doubt. The effects - the CGI especially - on this show remain tragically bad all the way through the end. But I think that's part of what makes it great. They look ridiculous but in a charming and endearing way.
Revelations
I don't know if anyone here read my posts in the Flash thread, but I think Revelations is the best example of the clear difference between Buffy and Flash in terms of a 22 episode season. Where I find Flash has to "stall" for time to get to May so they can cram everything in the final few episodes, We're on episode 7 of Season 3 of Buffy and the story got pushed forward quite a bit. The scene where everyone finds out about Angel was a lot better than I hoped it would be, especially with Giles and Buffy. I can understand why Buffy didn't want to tell anyone, and how she ended up hurting everyone in the process. It's actually a very teenager thing to do, which is why I really did like that scene. This series doesn't dwell on things for too long. Angel came back maybe 3 episodes ago, and now I would say he's fully back. I still hope we get some explaination on how, but it's a 22 episode season and baby steps is a lot better than no steps at all.
As for the rest of the episode, this was probably my favorite episode of the season so far. You had the stuff with Angel, sure, but Faith got a whole lot more development and another hint of the Watcher's Council was dropped. Also interesting is the reason Post was kicked out was because she let loose on the dark arts. Willow better be careful or else she might go down the same path. Granted, she's not a watcher, but we don't know what qualifies one to be a watcher so maybe there is a Watcher application you fill out and then you might get the job.
On a serious note though, I think the biggest reason I liked this episode was because it packed more emotional punches than other episodes this season so far. This honestly felt like a Season 2 episode, so more of that and more intrigue and Season 3 will be better than it has been so far. Like I said, I am enjoying this season, and it's still early, but it's missing a bit of a Spark to really make it good.
I don't know if anyone here read my posts in the Flash thread, but I think Revelations is the best example of the clear difference between Buffy and Flash in terms of a 22 episode season. Where I find Flash has to "stall" for time to get to May so they can cram everything in the final few episodes, We're on episode 7 of Season 3 of Buffy and the story got pushed forward quite a bit. The scene where everyone finds out about Angel was a lot better than I hoped it would be, especially with Giles and Buffy. I can understand why Buffy didn't want to tell anyone, and how she ended up hurting everyone in the process. It's actually a very teenager thing to do, which is why I really did like that scene. This series doesn't dwell on things for too long. Angel came back maybe 3 episodes ago, and now I would say he's fully back. I still hope we get some explaination on how, but it's a 22 episode season and baby steps is a lot better than no steps at all.
As for the rest of the episode, this was probably my favorite episode of the season so far. You had the stuff with Angel, sure, but Faith got a whole lot more development and another hint of the Watcher's Council was dropped. Also interesting is the reason Post was kicked out was because she let loose on the dark arts. Willow better be careful or else she might go down the same path. Granted, she's not a watcher, but we don't know what qualifies one to be a watcher so maybe there is a Watcher application you fill out and then you might get the job.
On a serious note though, I think the biggest reason I liked this episode was because it packed more emotional punches than other episodes this season so far. This honestly felt like a Season 2 episode, so more of that and more intrigue and Season 3 will be better than it has been so far. Like I said, I am enjoying this season, and it's still early, but it's missing a bit of a Spark to really make it good.
@tomalak301, I’m surprised you didn’t mention the hilarity of Synder in Band Candy. “Woah Summers! You drive like a spazz!”
I also agree with you about season two but three has some good stuff to come.
I also agree with you about season two but three has some good stuff to come.
That whole episode was weird. Snyder was probably a little less weird than Giles, and it was funny.
Drunk Spike might be my favorite Spike. Lover's Walk was hysterical, and really sad at the same time. Still, the winner of all of this is Spike, ironically. He has a plan to get Drusilla back and the rest of the gang all had relationships fall apart.
Tonight was a good night for Season 3. Starting to think the season might have just turned the corner.
Tonight was a good night for Season 3. Starting to think the season might have just turned the corner.
There is a great fourth wall style joke in one of of the later seasons where Buffy mentions that apocalypses have a tendency to happen around may.
Arrow also had one in the second or third season. Kinda predictable when it happens all the time.
This is a good observation. Buffy and Angel seasons are all built in a way that sort of mimics the classic three-act structure. So there 'mini-arcs' (For lack of a better term.), with each having its own climax of sorts. It's not exact, of course, but you can always count on there being a pivotal episode around number seven and again around number 14. As such, Revelations is 3x07.
Smallville* followed this structure pretty religiously too. And, while early Arrow and Flash seasons tried to, the DCW as a whole has kind of fallen off the wagon, favoring overloading everything at the end as you say. I think a big reason for this is the mission focus for the DCW as a whole has become more about world building than it has contextual story building.
*I know you could probably also consider Supernatural as apart of this direct lineage, but I never got into it, so I don't know much about its plotting.
In Legends Ray mentioned that the crossover always happened once a year
Also in a later season when a regular is in trouble and Buffy quips "It must be Tuesday." (The show aired on Tuesdays at the time).
Something I've realized this season with Flash and Arrow (I don't watch the other DC Shows) is how predictable they've gotten in terms of the format. It feels like both shows are the same. You start the season really well, have a crossover, then a midseason break, then when you come back after the Winter you have to stall because it isn't the end of the season yet. When I saw a news story about the writers on the flash wanting to break up the season into 3rds, I was excited for that prospect because it would break up the monotony of the season and make it a little more interesting than before. Well, they didn't do that and the Flash back half of the season suffering the same thing as they did last season.
I don't mind 22 episode seasons but if you're going to do arcs, you have to keep things interesting. I think what Buffy is great at in Season 2 (And it's looking that way in season 3) was each episode offered something new. You have the main arc usually, but when arcs aren't being advanced, the characters are, and that is called character development. Before shows went to full fledged arcs, there was the format I loved, which was episodic with an arc in the background. Some of the best shows thrived on this format: DS9, Farscape, Babylon 5, etc. If you're going full fledged arc,you need to keep things interesting each week, or shorten the season so it doesn't feel like you're dragging your heels until "The time is right".
Yeah, the showrunners of Arrow and The Flash always talk about how the Mutant Enemy superhero shows were a huge influence on them, but they completely missed their sense of pacing. Angel (and now Seasons 4+ of Agents of SHIELD) kept things fresh by having a jaw dropping cliffhanger every eight or so episodes which fundamentally changed the status quo of the series. "Status quo is NOT God; beat it to death with a shovel." was pretty much the mantra in Angel's writers room.
Buffy would typically spend the first half of the season dealing with the personal and emotional fallout from the end of the previous season while slowly building up the current season's Big Bad and mythology. And then the second half would tackle the Scoobies engaging with the Big Bad. That's how they got around the issue of making the Big Bad look too weak since they keep failing to kill the hero every week for 22 episodes. So you'd essentially have the end of the season be 6 or 7 myth arc episodes spread out across 11 episodes.
Arrow and The Flash reveal the Big Bads to their heroes right away, but still have just 6-7 or so myth arc episodes worth of story. Except now they're spread across an entire 23 episode season. Sometimes it works (Arrow: Seasons 1-2 & 5; The Flash: Season 1), but most of the time it's agonizingly drawn out.
Buffy would typically spend the first half of the season dealing with the personal and emotional fallout from the end of the previous season while slowly building up the current season's Big Bad and mythology. And then the second half would tackle the Scoobies engaging with the Big Bad. That's how they got around the issue of making the Big Bad look too weak since they keep failing to kill the hero every week for 22 episodes. So you'd essentially have the end of the season be 6 or 7 myth arc episodes spread out across 11 episodes.
Arrow and The Flash reveal the Big Bads to their heroes right away, but still have just 6-7 or so myth arc episodes worth of story. Except now they're spread across an entire 23 episode season. Sometimes it works (Arrow: Seasons 1-2 & 5; The Flash: Season 1), but most of the time it's agonizingly drawn out.
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