Buffy season nine discussion thread

[timothy]

what giving dru a soul would'nt crue her of her maddness which was done by angel ?


how about a buffy and angel count down to august .

 

[Turtletrekker]

what giving dru a soul would'nt crue her of her maddness which was done by angel ?

More likely, if Dru were re-ensouled and restored to being the person that she was, she would probably go even more insane from the memory of all of the death and pain that she is responsible for.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah one of the core themes that Joss wanted to return to was the trinity of Buffy, Xander, and Willow. I think the entire season revolves around these three to varying degrees of course. Each one of them goes through something different. Xander suffers tragedy again only to get happiness with Dawn (something that at first I didn't like but came to accept and enjoy). One of my favorite moments of the season is when Xander and Buffy finally have a heart to heart about their feelings for one another. I thought FINALLY!!!

 

[timothy]

I liked how dawn so messed with buffy's head at the end while she was in the bathroom with xander . that was hillarous . I am gona miss giles though rip.

 

[DevilEyes]

what giving dru a soul would'nt crue her of her maddness which was done by angel ?

what giving dru a soul would'nt crue her of her maddness which was done by angel ?

More likely, if Dru were re-ensouled and restored to being the person that she was, she would probably go even more insane from the memory of all of the death and pain that she is responsible for.

Exactly. And BTW Dru went insane before she was turned into a vampire. Angel said that he first drove her insane, then he sired her, and we saw insane human Drusilla in "Darla" flashbacks. She wasn't insane in a funny way like vampire Drusilla, she was just sitting there and looking completely lost and pitiable.

And what do you know.

Spoiler: Current Spike comics, #6

They're giving her her soul back, at least temporarily, in the current Spike comic. I doubt that they're going to cover any of the problems in the remaining 2 issues

I wonder if they're going to do any more motion comic DVDs? I just can't get into the comic medium but I can tolerate the motion comics. But I really wish some of these would be adapted into animated movies.

The weird thing that struck me about Season 8 (at least what I've seen) is how different it feels from the latter seasons of the TV show. Whereas Season 7 seemed to shift a great deal of the focus towards Anya, Spike, & Andrew, Season 8 brings it back to the core 3 of Buffy, Xander, & Willow. Sadly not enough Giles.

Well there's also the thing with Spike and Angel being in their own comics on IDW, which is not going to be a problem in the next season. And I'm not sure you're quite right about the core three. The season actually focused quite a lot on Faith (who got her own 4-issue arc) and Dawn (who got her own standalone issue and a big role [no pun intended] in a few other arcs). Not to mention that some other one-shots focused on Harmony ("Harmonic Divergence" and a few supplementary e-comics), Kennedy and Satsu ("Swell"), and even Riley (the Riley one-shot).

And even if the show did focus on the core 3, everything else was very different from the show, with Buffy being a leader of an army a celebrity and a "public enemy", Xander a watcher-of-sorts and Willow being a super-witch with powers much greater than anything we've seen on the show. #40 in fact represents going back "home", with Willow de-powered, Xander back to being an everyman with a construction work job, and Buffy as an unsung lone hero again, working in a cafeteria by day and hunting monsters in dark alleys by night.

It's kinda like the opposite of Angel: After the Fall, which not only kept the core Season 5 cast of Angel, Spike, Gunn, Illyria, Lorne, & Wesley but also brought back all of those old characters like Connor, Anne, Gwen Raiden, and even long forgotten heroes like Groo & Kate Lockley.

Well, season 8 actually brought back everyone long time gone that could possibly or almost possibly be brought back. In chronological order:

Amy
Ethan Rayne
Warren (!!)
Dracula
Riley (+ Sam in the Riley one-shot)
Clem
Oz
Angel (well, actually he's been there all along but we didn't know that)
Whistler (in the Riley one-shot)
Spike
The Master (!!!)

Plus, if you count dreams, we also get to see Caleb, Tara ("Always Darkest", which also features cameis by a bunch of monsters from the show like the Gentlemen) and season 1 Joyce and Cordelia in "After These Messages" and we get to see the Mayor in Faith's flashback. It's like S8 took care to reference just about everything from the show.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

Also with dru being back in spike life do you think willow will give her a soul as well?

Rumor is that Dru will indeed get a soul but Spike will lose his. If that's true, then Spike was already without a soul during his appearances in Buffy Season 8. Something to ponder...

 

[timothy]

do you think she'll revert to her older self or be crazier than she already is ?

 

[DevilEyes]

Also with dru being back in spike life do you think willow will give her a soul as well?

Rumor is that Dru will indeed get a soul but Spike will lose his. If that's true, then Spike was already without a soul during his appearances in Buffy Season 8. Something to ponder...

That's the plot of the latest Spike comic (Spike #6), but it's pretty clear that the soul-losing (an incredibly stupid plotline, BTW) is only temporary. There's no way that Spike was soulless during season 8, because, for one thing, it would be really bad writing if he acted as it he was souled while he was soulless. If anything, he's better at restraining his emotions in S8 than he was in S7. There's no freaking way that Spike of S6 would act around Buffy the way he acts in #40, or #37 for that matter.

Besides, for the soul-losing and soul-gaining to be relevant to season 8, they would have to make the whole idea of "soul for a soul" canon... even though it makes no sense from everything else we've seen on the shows and surely something that big would have been mentioned at some point. I really don't believe that Whedon plans to retcon the mythology of the soul based on Lynch's idea for an IDW comic.

People are already debating what in the comic is or isn't canon... I won't be surprised if it comes down to "So, this panel is canon, but the next one maybe isn't, and this panel is canon but the balloon in the left corner isn't"

do you think she'll revert to her older self or be crazier than she already is ?

Dru was already crazy before she got sired. Soul doesn't cure insanity (it's more likely that it would make a sane vampire go crazy) and soullessness or being a vampire was never a reason she was insane. It was what happened to her while she was still human. She is more likely to be the way she was in that church flashback in "Darla" than in the older flashback in "Becoming".

 

[Dark Gilligan]

People are already debating what in the comic is or isn't canon... I won't be surprised if it comes down to "So, this panel is canon, but the next one maybe isn't, and this panel is canon but the balloon in the left corner isn't."

Is the debate valid, though? I'm of the understanding that Joss himself established all of the comics' major plot points before assigning them to the writers for completion. Doesn't that make the comics Whedon canon by definition?

 

[DevilEyes]

People are already debating what in the comic is or isn't canon... I won't be surprised if it comes down to "So, this panel is canon, but the next one maybe isn't, and this panel is canon but the balloon in the left corner isn't."

Is the debate valid, though? I'm of the understanding that Joss himself established all of the comics' major plot points before assigning them to the writers for completion. Doesn't that make the comics Whedon canon by definition?

No, the story about Spike's bug ship is from Joss, and he oversaw Willow's dialogue, but the 'soul for a soul' stuff comes from Lynch, as does everything with Dru, and of course the characters created by Lynch (Beck, Betta George etc.).

I doubt that the 'soul for a soul' idea will ever be referenced in DH comics. I'll be very surprised if it does.

 

[timothy]

this week picking up angel # 43 and spike # 6 and just finished Illyria # 4 . so well find out what with spike' soul .

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ If you want to start a general Buffy and Angel verse thread for other stuff feel free.

 

[Turtletrekker]

More from Scott Allie at ECCC on season nine and Joss Whedon's involvement.

A summary courtesy of Whedonesque...

Joss is heavily involved. Dark Horse was prepared to have limited Joss involvment in season 9. They were trying to figure out the logistics of keeping Joss happy but not make huge demands on his time. But Joss said, what happens to Buffy is too important to him and he wants to be directly involved and writing for season 9. Writing for Buffy is a release for Joss with all the pressure he's under right now(with The Avengers).

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ I figured that Joss wouldn't be able to completely stay away. This is good news.

 

[timothy]

this is fantastic news I love buff so much the characters the stories . I am so glad
joss whedon will over see it all . one last issue of angel left and two issues of spike left .

 

[Ethros]

She is more likely to be the way she was in that church flashback in "Darla" than in the older flashback in "Becoming".

Sorry to be anal, but those scenes were actually from the Angel ep "Dear Boy"


Just read Spike #6 myself, god I hate Stephen Mooney's art. And the whole soul thing is yes, pretty silly

 

[timothy]

besides dru was'nt nuts before she was a vampire . she church going and I think she was an early psychic and had visions which her parents probably thought they were the work of the devil . and angel sired dru and then drove her nuts. and then dru sired spike which calmed her down.

 

[DevilEyes]

besides dru was'nt nuts before she was a vampire . she church going and I think she was an early psychic and had visions which her parents probably thought they were the work of the devil . and angel sired dru and then drove her nuts. and then dru sired spike which calmed her down.

No, you got it backwards. Angel said he first drove her insane. Then he sired her.

Angel: I did a lot of unconscionable things when I became a vampire. (turns back, but doesn't make eye contact) Drusilla was the worst. She was... an obsession of mine. She was pure and sweet and chaste...
Buffy: And you made her a vampire.
Angel: First I made her insane. (looks at her) Killed everybody she loved. Visited every mental torture on her I could devise. (Buffy looks away) She eventually fled to a convent, and on the day she took her holy orders, I turned her into a demon.

("Lie to Me")

She already seems out of her mind in the church flashback in "Dear Boy" (not "Darla" - thanks, Ethros...).

 

[Turtletrekker]

The Angel series will be titled "Angel and Faith" and will be written by Christos Gage.

Some bits from the interview...

From what I understand, "Angel & Faith" will be part of the Season 9 banner with Buffy -- but pointedly not simply as a part of "Buffy Season 9." To what degree will the events of your series be intermingling with what's going on in the next Buffy series?
It's not all that different from the way they functioned when both shows were on TV at the same time. They take place in the same universe, but in different geographic locations. There may be references to each other, and characters from one may even cross over to the other at times -- but they'll essentially be separate stories in the same world, for the most part. But the larger landscape -- a world now cut off from magical realms, with different interests moving to adjust to the new status quo in ways both beneficial and deadly -- is common to both books.

******

It's interesting that Faith shares top billing for this book. What is her role in the series, and why, to your mind, does it merit putting her name in the title?
We didn't want her to feel like a sidekick or gal Friday. She's never been that, and she won't be here. I was telling Scott that I think of all the Buffyverse characters, Faith has matured the most. You could make an argument for Xander, but I think Faith started further behind the eight ball than him. And post-"Twilight," she might just be in the best place of anyone. Which leads to the question of whether being around Angel, who is probably in the worst place, is a good idea...

 

[DevilEyes]

This sounds great. I love that Faith got her name in the title and isn't treated like a sidekick.

To someone unfamiliar with the Buffyverse, 'Angel and Faith' would probably sound like some Christian literature.

More good news - this about Buffy season 9:

Confirmation that Joss will be heavily involved with season 9

“He’s pretty busy, but we were really gearing up for how to do this with as little of his time as possible,” says Allie. “And we had figured out how to do it,” Allie says. “But [Joss] said he really wanted to be involved. So he has been making the time. He is writing the first issue of BUFFY, he’ll be co-writing the other issues, he’ll be editing the scripts. Pretty much the same way he did in Season 8.”
But Joss is not just limiting himself to writing chores since he will be directing the forthcoming THE AVENGERS movie for Marvel.
“He’s pretty hands on. We had a writer’s summit at [Joss’] house where everyone on staff and some writers from Season 8 and broke the season and came up with the basic direction of the season,” Allie says. “Outlines and scripts get run by him, he gives notes, he re-writes stuff, he’s writing parts himself. He has very specific ideas about the parts he wants to do himself. And Joss and [co-writer] Andrew [Chambliss] are working very closely together about the parts he is not writing himself.”

Interview with season 9 new co-writer, Andrew Chambliss

Chambliss was a writer for "Dollhouse" and now writes for "Vampire Diaries".
Parts from the interview:

Buffyfest: Great story! In terms of your intro in the Buffyverse, how did you prepare for Season 9 once you got the news you were writing it?

AC: I'd already read the first three or four trade paperbacks of Season 8 over the past year or so, but I'd fallen behind as my life started to get busier and busier. After Joss emailed me about working with him, I quickly ran out and bought the rest. I read the entire season cover to cover two or three times. I also pulled my Buffy DVD set off the shelf and started watching my favorite episodes -- both to remind myself of the world and to start planting the characters' voices in my heads. Joss also held a Buffy summit at his house with Season 8 writers to brainstorm ideas for Season 9 and the Angel and Faith series. Getting to spend an afternoon with people like Joss, Jane Espenson and Drew Greenberg. Geek heaven.

Buffyfest: Oh, to be a fly on that wall! Now that you're at the helm, which character are you most excited to write and why?

AC: It may seem the obvious choice, but I'm going to have to say Buffy. Going into season 9, she's in a really interesting place – she always thought she was going to die saving the world, but now that she actually survived, she has to face her real life (don't worry, they'll still be lots of slaying). And at the same time, she's watching her friends move on with their lives, and has to deal with the fact that the Scooby Gang might not be there to help her like they used to be.

I'm also excited to write Andrew because I can unabashedly let my inner geek shine through him. And I think this is the first time I will have written a character that shares my name.

Buffyfest: What about a character that you're disappointed you won't get to write with Giles dead, Spike off in his Bug ship and Angel and Faith moving over to the Angel title?

AC: Of course, I'm disappointed that I won't get to write Giles. If I learned anything from writing Adelle on Dollhouse, it's that British characters are fun to write. Maybe it's because you can add completely unnecessary letters to their dialogue, in words like “colour” or “aluminium”. Speaking of British accents, I can safely say that Spike won't be on his bug ship for very long. He'll definitely be a part of Buffy's Season 9 life.

Buffyfest: What about the big man himself? How will the co-writing work with Joss? Will you write all the issues or split the work load with him?

AC: Joss and I have been doing most of the story breaking over e-mail and the phone (I think he's busy with a movie or something). We're splitting the script writing duties at the moment and hope to continue to work that way as we continue to write the season.

Buffyfest: Any spoilers you'd like to share for the Season 9? Please?!

AC: They'll be some new characters introduced early on in the season. I won't give away too much, but one of them includes a hunky demon who served time in a mystical prison.

Buffyfest: That’ll definitely have people talking! With the announcement that there will be two main titles under the banner of Season 9, are you working with the Angel series writer to crossover the two stories?

AC: At the moment, we don't have any large crossovers planned, but we'll most likely send certain characters off to one another between both series.

Oh, and hes' a fan of the show, and his favorite season is 6. That's my man

Buffyfest: Okay, we’ll just have to wait and see! So, let's finish with some fun fan questions. How did you get into Buffy?

AC: I remember watching the early seasons of Buffy when I was in high school, and never did the thought cross my mind that I might be writing in that universe at some point in my future. When I started to get interested in television writing a few years later, I began to watch the show much more carefully, and that's when I realized just how incredible it was. At that point, I was hooked.

Buffyfest: Was there a particular moment that made you think, "This is more than just an ordinary TV show”?

AC: There are so many moments, but if I have to pinpoint one, I think I'd say Angel losing his soul in season two.

Buffyfest: What about favorite season of the show?

AC: This is tough, but I think I'm going to say season 6. Spike and Buffy. The Trio. Dark Willow. In fact, I think I'm going to go watch some Season 6 right now.