Dunno if we'll ever see a Technical Manual or Booklet of General Plans from this new timeline published, but it'd be interesting to see how they label the beer tanks in the Communications Center: "Subspace Resonance Chamber" perhaps?
Budweiser Factory Enterprise, Good or Bad Idea?
- Thread starter Tom
- Start date
I-Am-Zim
Captain
Well. It appears that JJ's retro brewery version of engineering is a love it/hate it design. Personally, I hate it. They could have done sooooooo much better. The original sketches for engineering looked pretty good. Kind of like a combination of NX-01 and the TMP refit. Unfortunately, if they had built that set, it would have actually looked like something that could have been from a 23rd century starship. And JJA couldh't have that. For some unknown reason, his version of engineering on a 23rd century starship capable of travelling faster than the speed of light needs to look like a 20th century factory complete with tanks, pipes, manual valves, knobs, fluorescent lights hanging from chain fixtures, etc. NuEngineering looks out of place in this movie. This set would look out of place in any (serious) movie that is supposed to take place in the distant future. It simply does not look futuristic at all. When the engineering set shows up on screen, it's as if they walked through a portal from a 23rd century starship to a 20th century factory set convincingly on terra firma. That's my biggest problem with the NuEngineering set. It looks like a factory. It looks like it's on earth, not in a starship. It did not feel like it was actually inside the ship. It looked like thay could have walked out of a door and into a parking lot at any time. It was simply rediculous. Of course, that's my opinion. I seriously hope they do something that actually looks futuristic in the next movie.
I-Am-Zim
Captain
Honestly, I don't thing we'll ever see a technical manual for the Abramsprise. There are just too many things about that ship that simply don't make sense. I do wonder how those tanks will be labeled. It would seem to be pretty dumb to have people working right next to antimatter storage tanks. If that is what they were. And why the heck would there be a communications station in engineering anyway. That makes no sense. That's just one more thing to add to the looooooooooong list of stuff in this movie that make absolutely no logical sense at all.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
Which is ironic since the space jump sequence is one long CGI set extension/background replacement
Abrams wanted an action movie for the first one. So he spent the money he was given with that in mind.
The problem is that some fans don't watch Star Trek to see young hansome people doing exciting things. For them, the best parts of the previous incarnations were the technical manuals, and the technobabble. You can't geek out and speculate on what all the crap does in the background when its a pre-existing location.
The problem is that some fans don't watch Star Trek to see young hansome people doing exciting things. For them, the best parts of the previous incarnations were the technical manuals, and the technobabble. You can't geek out and speculate on what all the crap does in the background when its a pre-existing location.
Not at all. However, that has nothing to do with a technical manual.
You changed it to "the entire movie," keep it to one thing.
No, if it makes no logical sense to you then it doesn't mean that a technical manual can't be done. The purpose of a tech manual ends up being to "comfort" fans and to "unconfuse" them. Difference.
From what I recall reading, Abrams' idea was one which quite a few directors have been employing: rather than use CGI wherever possible, which had been the trend for quite a few years up until relatively recently, the move has lately been toward using physical sets as often as possible and reserving CGI sets and set extensions for occasions where it's either wholly impractical or completely impossible to do the scene with a completely built set. The space jump and drilling platform sequence would be a perfect example of this and, as I suggested earlier, the decision to use the little-modified brewery location as the turbine-room set may well have been the trade-off which allowed them to get the space jump sequence into the movie while still remaining under budget and on schedule.
Which is ironic since the space jump sequence is one long CGI set extension/background replacement
This, on the other hand?
Meh. That sounds a little like something one of our more vehement (and now-departed) pre-release critics might have said; (unlike the not-entirely-serious tone I'm picking up in your posts, he would have meant it sincerely and wholeheartedly, and very probably while frothing copiously at the lips.) Simple economics seems a lot more plausible to me as a reason for what we ended up seeing. (Which is not, mind you, the same thing as saying I would mind the Engineering deck getting a substantial upgrade by the time the next movie starts shooting.
)
I-Am-Zim
Captain
Actually, I was pretty serious (yet somewhat sarcastic at the same time). The original ads for the movie declared that this was "not your father's Star Trek". And that was quite true. Apparently the entire movie was designed to distance itself as far from the original series as possible while still retaining the name "Star Trek". Hence the rediculous engineering deck set (obviously) in a brewery. Apparently, based on the initial design sketches, if it looked too futuristic or "Star Treky", it was jetisoned in favor of more primitive looking, 20th century design aesthetics. A direction I find absolutely baffling.
All of this is your own assumption based on connecting dots where there aren't any. Do you honestly believe that if they were given a choice that they still wouldn't have gone with their own engineering set? Tell us what makes you think that a cost cutting measure like filming at the brewery was some part of a "ploy" to distance this film as far away from Star Trek as possible? Why can't you accept the fact that it was done for cost cutting and not some sort of dumb "conspiracy theory" like you think.
Which is ironic since the space jump sequence is one long CGI set extension/background replacement
Yes, CGI was employed for the long and wide shots (and the jump) but most of the action was shot tightly, in-camera, on an outdoor set piece using natural lighting. Moreover, most of the close-up jump sequence was filmed using in-camera tricks and natural lighting rather than relying heavily on green screen.
The sequence is, as I said, thrilling and daring. It contained all the sense of adventure I've felt had been bled out of Trek over four spin-off series and several lackluster movies. A CGI engineering set would've been flat, expected and not terribly exciting. Oh, look, another pulsing tube of light...seen it.
I know you're having a bit fun, ST-One, but I felt the need to clarify.
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ST-One
Vice Admiral
Which is ironic since the space jump sequence is one long CGI set extension/background replacement
Yes, CGI was employed for the long and wide shots (and the jump) but most of the action was shot tightly, in-camera, on an outdoor set piece using natural lighting. Moreover, most of the close-up jump sequence was filmed using in-camera tricks and natural lighting rather than relying heavily on green screen.
Moreover, the sequence is, as I said, thrilling and daring. It contained all the sense of adventure I've felt had been bled out of Trek over four spin-off series and several lackluster movies. A CGI engineering set would've been flat, expected and not terribly exciting. Oh, look, another pulsing tube of light...seen it.
I know you're having a bit fun, ST-One, but I felt the need to clarify.
I know all this
Personally, I couldn't care less about the fact that they used a brewery for engineering. That location did the trick.
The space jump is an amazing piece of film-making and visual effects; it's loaded with shots that are completely in-camera and shots that are almost entirely CG, and it all merges seamlessly.
If they had to trade an engineering set for this sequence, then I hope they show the same good judgement in the next film.
Okay; I'll give the first movie a pass on Engineering if construction was just not finished. Otherwise this is how the next movie should start:
Alternate opening scene for Star Trek XII
Captain Kirk arrives onboard Enterprise to inspect Engineering. He’s just returned from Starfleet Command College while Enterprise undergoes repairs from its previous mission.
Scotty: “Welcome aboard Captain. You’ll find repairs completed and everything in order.”
Kirk: “Thank you Mr. Scott. Well I suppose there’s a first time for everything.“
Kirk inspects one of the new B.E.E.R. vessels.
Kirk: “This one’s empty.”
Scotty: “That’s our reserve storage capacity Sir. It’s currently not in use”
Kirk inspects the next one.
Kirk: “This one’s also empty” Sees Chief Keenser fidgeting. “What’s wrong with him?
Scotty: “Aye Sir; It’s down for its maintenance cycle and routine cleaning.”
Scotty to Keenser: “Stop that!”
Kirk: “Maintenance? It’s just been installed!”
Kirk checks the next several vessels.
Kirk: “These are all empty too! They should all be full!”
Scotty to Keenser again: “Stop it!”
Scotty: “Aye Sir. Yes Sir; we haven’t been resupplied yet by the Yard.”
Kirk: “Bullshit. That went through last month.”
Keenser: “Hic”
Scotty again to Keenser: “Stop it, I’m warning you!”
Kirk: “Scotty where’s the B.E.E.R.?”
Scotty: “It’s all perfectly safe Sir.”
Kirk: ‘WHERE!"
Intercom: “Security to Captain Kirk.”
Kirk: “Kirk here, go ahead.”
Intercom: “Lieutenant Garrovick here Sir. We’ve discovered that all of the fresh water supplies have been replaced with B.E.E.R.”
Kirk: “Oh God.”
Intercom: “Mr. Spock cutting in Captain. We’ve discovered a beer tap in Mr. Scott’s office and Chief Keenser’s quarters and the floors are littered with used beer mugs.”
Keenser passes out and falls down.
Kirk: “Scotty,… Why?”
Scotty (wobbling): “I canna help myself Captain. I can’t change the laws of physics.” “Hic”
Scotty: “I like this ship!” “Hic” Falls down.
Almost Forgot:
B.E.E.R. : Biosynthetic Enhanced Ethanol Replacement
Alternate opening scene for Star Trek XII
Captain Kirk arrives onboard Enterprise to inspect Engineering. He’s just returned from Starfleet Command College while Enterprise undergoes repairs from its previous mission.
Scotty: “Welcome aboard Captain. You’ll find repairs completed and everything in order.”
Kirk: “Thank you Mr. Scott. Well I suppose there’s a first time for everything.“
Kirk inspects one of the new B.E.E.R. vessels.
Kirk: “This one’s empty.”
Scotty: “That’s our reserve storage capacity Sir. It’s currently not in use”
Kirk inspects the next one.
Kirk: “This one’s also empty” Sees Chief Keenser fidgeting. “What’s wrong with him?
Scotty: “Aye Sir; It’s down for its maintenance cycle and routine cleaning.”
Scotty to Keenser: “Stop that!”
Kirk: “Maintenance? It’s just been installed!”
Kirk checks the next several vessels.
Kirk: “These are all empty too! They should all be full!”
Scotty to Keenser again: “Stop it!”
Scotty: “Aye Sir. Yes Sir; we haven’t been resupplied yet by the Yard.”
Kirk: “Bullshit. That went through last month.”
Keenser: “Hic”
Scotty again to Keenser: “Stop it, I’m warning you!”
Kirk: “Scotty where’s the B.E.E.R.?”
Scotty: “It’s all perfectly safe Sir.”
Kirk: ‘WHERE!"
Intercom: “Security to Captain Kirk.”
Kirk: “Kirk here, go ahead.”
Intercom: “Lieutenant Garrovick here Sir. We’ve discovered that all of the fresh water supplies have been replaced with B.E.E.R.”
Kirk: “Oh God.”
Intercom: “Mr. Spock cutting in Captain. We’ve discovered a beer tap in Mr. Scott’s office and Chief Keenser’s quarters and the floors are littered with used beer mugs.”
Keenser passes out and falls down.
Kirk: “Scotty,… Why?”
Scotty (wobbling): “I canna help myself Captain. I can’t change the laws of physics.” “Hic”
Scotty: “I like this ship!” “Hic” Falls down.
Almost Forgot:
B.E.E.R. : Biosynthetic Enhanced Ethanol Replacement
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Oh, I got the sarcasm, and I think I can make out fairly well the serious points underlying it, but trust me - compared to the guy I had in mind, you're quite the wit, and a good deal more reasonable.
The "not your father's Star Trek" tagline was one spot only, unless I'm mistaken, and it didn't come until relatively late in the ad campaign -- only two or three months before the movie went into general release, when the push was being made to address demographics which had not for years (or never at all) been any part of the Star Trek fanbase.
Balderdash.
I don't buy that for a second, and I don't think you do, either.Another arguement for the big Enterprise. I might use the Engineering sets from the movie to explain self-contained deuterium tanks (not just sloshing in the hull--with the "actual" engineering set (proposed, as yet unbuilt) being located above or below the set we saw.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
I used to work years ago in a plating plant not unlike the "brewery" used in the movie and not once did I ever imagine that I was actually in the engineering section of a 23rd Century Starship.
So, you lack an imagination?
Should have moved the production to New Zealand where things are much cheaper.
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