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Bryan Fuller: Diversity is key

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Soren was a biological female who secretly identified with being female, and who was sexually attracted to biological males who identified with being male.

She lived in a society that officially require people to reject the concept of gender and to be sexually bi-sexual.

Where do you see "conservative position" there?
Complying with tradition, social norms, rejection of other expressions of sexuality or gender than those held by the governing peoples. Essentially The Outcast flipped the real life situation on its head - what if binary gender and heterosexuality was the identity which was rejected by the conservative establishment?
 
It's supposed to make the viewing audience, most of whom would be straight and cis, have empathy for the character because she felt and behaved like them.
 
If they were to have a trans character for the show, there would be no excuse to not cast a trans actor.

If they happened to cast a trans actor, to my way of thinking, they'd have to get someone really passable. I imagine that after a couple hundred years, gender reassignment procedures would be a lot more sophisticated than they are today, to the point that you'd never be able to guess that a trans person was ever anything other than the sex with which they identify.
 
If they happened to cast a trans actor
There's no excuse not to.
to my way of thinking, they'd have to get someone really passable. I imagine that after a couple hundred years, gender reassignment procedures would be a lot more sophisticated than they are today, to the point that you'd never be able to guess that a trans person was ever anything other than the sex with which they identify.
Not everything is about in-universe logic. Trans actors face enough barriers as it is without adding "sorry, you look too trans for a trans part" into the mix.
 
If they happened to cast a trans actor, to my way of thinking, they'd have to get someone really passable. I imagine that after a couple hundred years, gender reassignment procedures would be a lot more sophisticated than they are today, to the point that you'd never be able to guess that a trans person was ever anything other than the sex with which they identify.

They do species reassignment in an afternoon on Trek.
 
They do species reassignment in an afternoon on Trek.
This would be one problem in showing a trans character in the process to transitioning. The physical part would be (could be) remarkable quick, although the psychological transitioning probably would be months or even years.

You could incorporate into the story line that a slower physical transition is recommended so as that the person's body can more gradually absorb/accommodate the hormonal (sp?) changes.

If a 6 foot 2 man wanted to eventually be a 5 foot 5 woman, a one hour transition might not be the best idea.

Of course to have a trans character, you wouldn't have to show the transition, that could have happen prior to our meeting the character.
But it's about diversity of cast as much as characters.
Would you reject a trans actor playing a not trans character?
That's erasing trans people. Would you hire a white actor to play a black character?
Like hiring Patrick Stewart to play Shakespeare's Othello?

Othello is a black lead character in a otherwise all white cast, years ago white Stewart played Othello with a all black cast.
Are these meant as arguments with what I wrote in my post?
Not directly, more your ideas sparked my own.
 
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This would be one problem in showing a trans character in the process to transitioning. The physical part would be (could be) remarkable quick, although the psychological transitioning probably would be months or even years.
What psychological transition? Trans people are the gender they identify as, it's just that their body doesn't match. Transitioning makes it so the outside matches the inside. A trans woman is psychologically female the second she's born.

You could incorporate into the story line that a slower physical transition is recommended so as that the person's body can more gradually absorb/accommodate the hormonal (sp?) changes.
Why would you need to show that process? Just mention in dialogue that a character is trans and maybe deal with their struggles occasionally. Transitioning is a fairly short part of a trans person's life. Usually 2 or 3 years depending on genetics.

If a 6 foot 2 man wanted to eventually be a 5 foot 5 woman, a one hour transition might not be the best idea.
A trans woman was never a man.

Of course to have a trans character, you wouldn't have to show the transition, that could have happen prior to our meeting the character.
Of course not. Trans people's lives do not revolve around their transition. That's just the part that cis people are obsessed with for some reason.

Would you reject a trans actor playing a not trans character?
That's not the same thing at all. Minorities don't get as many opportunities as the majority. Especially in the case of trans people, where there are plenty of actors and actresses but almost no roles.

Like hiring Patrick Stewart to play Shakespeare's Othello?

Othello is a black lead character in a otherwise all white cast, years ago white Stewart played Othello with a all black cast.Not directly, more your ideas sparked my own.
No, like black face. Are you fine with that? Because you're fine with "trans face", something that should never happen again.

If they happened to cast a trans actor, to my way of thinking, they'd have to get someone really passable. I imagine that after a couple hundred years, gender reassignment procedures would be a lot more sophisticated than they are today, to the point that you'd never be able to guess that a trans person was ever anything other than the sex with which they identify.
What you're actually saying is that I'm the future people will be forced to fit into a standard of beauty that's purely focused on cisgender people and that everyone will be forced to comply with that standard. Given that even by the 23rd century, humans have started to delight in their differences such attitudes will be long dead.
 
What about a trans actor playing a non-trans person? Or what about a female actor playing a male character? If gender is fluid, I don't see why you couldn't do this.

For example, if Katy Perry wanted to play MALE Captain Kirk in an upcoming new reboot...why should she not be considered?
 
Part of the issue is history and context. White straight men are in no danger of being erased or not represented. None whatsoever. But when you have a role for a trans actor, a minority actor, a woman, or any other underrepresented group on film, and you fill it with a white man, you remove the sliver of representation they were getting.
 
What about a trans actor playing a non-trans person? Or what about a female actor playing a male character? If gender is fluid, I don't see why you couldn't do this.

For example, if Katy Perry wanted to play MALE Captain Kirk in an upcoming new reboot...why should she not be considered?
Trans people have already played non-trans characters because there aren't enough trans characters being written. That's fine though because there has never been a history of trans people oppressing and erasing cis people. Nothing is being taken from cis people because 99.99999999999% of all roles are for cis characters and played by cis actors. Maybe a handful of trans people will play a cis character, but cis actors aren't being prevented from getting roles.

But this does happen to trans actors. They get denied trans roles because "they don't look trans enough", they then give the role to a cis person. Mainly because cis people have the misinformed idea that a trans woman is a man in a dress and a trans man is a woman in a suit.
 
Part of the issue is history and context. White straight men are in no danger of being erased or not represented. None whatsoever. But when you have a role for a trans actor, a minority actor, a woman, or any other underrepresented group on film, and you fill it with a white man, you remove the sliver of representation they were getting.
It's the difference between a white man doing black face for humor and a black actor doing white face. One has a long sad history of denying black actors roles and racism, the other isn't.
 
Trans people have already played non-trans characters because there aren't enough trans characters being written. That's fine though because there has never been a history of trans people oppressing and erasing cis people. Nothing is being taken from cis people because 99.99999999999% of all roles are for cis characters and played by cis actors. Maybe a handful of trans people will play a cis character, but cis actors aren't being prevented from getting roles.

But this does happen to trans actors. They get denied trans roles because "they don't look trans enough", they then give the role to a cis person. Mainly because cis people have the misinformed idea that a trans woman is a man in a dress and a trans man is a woman in a suit.

You didn't answer my question about the possibility of putting born-female actors into roles of born-male characters (or vice-versa). I don't see any reason why this can't be done in this day and age.
 
You didn't answer my question about the possibility of putting born-female actors into roles of born-male characters (or vice-versa). I don't see any reason why this can't be done in this day and age.
I have no problem with that. It's already happened. Female actors have played male roles, Cate Blanchett has played Bob Dylan and Linda Hunt won an Oscar for playing a man in Year of Living Dangerously.
 
If they happened to cast a trans actor, to my way of thinking, they'd have to get someone really passable. I imagine that after a couple hundred years, gender reassignment procedures would be a lot more sophisticated than they are today, to the point that you'd never be able to guess that a trans person was ever anything other than the sex with which they identify.

Not everything is about in-universe logic. Trans actors face enough barriers as it is without adding "sorry, you look too trans for a trans part" into the mix.

I think MadeIndescrible's point is the more important one, but additionally, I don't think a trans character being "passable" is needed to be consistent with in-universe logic. Presumably future technology could similarly give great hair to the bald and slim down the overweight, but we see plenty examples of both. The concerns of Trek-era humans seems to be looking like who they really are, not conforming to an ideal beauty standard for their gender. I mean, we even have omnipotent beings that could assume literally any form at will that are content to appear as schlubby middle aged white men!

Of course, this is setting aside the fact that we see MANY more examples of average looking men than we do average looking women, but this depressing double standard afflicts almost all our entertainment.

Though actually, that makes me think about another thing I'd really love from Discovery: a female alien that is freed from the need to also be a hot babe. We've never had that in any sort of regular way. Where's a female version of a Quark/Neelix/Phlox character? A woman where it can just be about her alien-ness, without working it to make sure it also fits human sexiness...

(Yeah, I know, keep dreaming...)

I have no problem with that. It's already happened. Female actors have played male roles, Cate Blanchett has played Bob Dylan and Linda Hunt won an Oscar for playing a man in Year of Living Dangerously.

Louie Anderson on "Baskets" is another great example.
 
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