Broken Bow: ENT Newcomer Thoughts

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Balok's Decoy, Sep 8, 2016.

  1. JRTStarlight

    JRTStarlight Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    Location:
    Astral Plane
    I've started my third run on the series (I think - first aired, Netflix, and now Netflix again since my brother wanted to, so we're watching together).

    I'll probably make a new thread just to review the episodes one-by-one, but since this is a thread dedicated to the opener, I'll say a few things here after I quote my brother, who sums up my own feelings pretty well, but he wrote this.

    My Brother's Opinion
    For my part, I thought it was a great opener.

    My nit piks included wondering why Klanng was traveling in the direction of Earth after receiving the information at Rigel X. Kronos is in the other direction.

    I wondered what happened to the Suliban ship pursuing Klanng. Though I've read differently, is it possible the Suliban had already captured Klanng and were heading somewhere (near Earth) but Klanng caused them to crash? Then he ran and they pursued and he killed them, but later got shot by the farmer with a plasma rifle (luckily not in the 40-watt range).

    And to make this story work at all, they put Kronos 4 days away from Earth at warp 4.5. It's really much farther. The numbers don't work very well. At warp 4.5, the ship should travel about 1 light year every 4 days (and not the 90 or so they have for this one story). Later, during season 1, they crawl out to around 100 light years in that first year, which is about right.

    Other than those nit piks, I was quite happy with the opener.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
    Yanks and KennyB like this.
  2. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Location:
    NX01 Bridge
    Looking forward to reading your reviews! :techman:
     
  3. JRTStarlight

    JRTStarlight Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    Location:
    Astral Plane
    Thanks. I've started them here, as I see you have seen since you "liked" it.

    https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/enterprise-episode-review-with-spoilers.290742/#post-12215817

    However, according to board rules, I shouldn't post more than twice in a row, lest I be admonished, or worse. So unless others make comment there, in that thread, I cannot proceed.

    But also according to board rules, such comments should be more substantial than "Yeah" or similar short responses. I suspect anyone just saying what they liked most or least about the last reviewed episode would be more than enough for me to proceed with the next episode, when I'm ready. Or to disagree with something I've said, or correct any mistakes I might have made, which will probably happen.

    I'd particularly like it when somebody would post an episode specific image they might dig up or know about or find on the web. Images really help give one a better sense of the story and are great reminders which episode we're talking about, but they take a lot of time to find them or decide which ones are really representative of the story's message.

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to the thread, too, hopefully with several interested parties and Enterprise fans who might follow along on Netflix. Talking about it is part of the fun of Trek, after all.
     
    Yanks likes this.
  4. Danny99

    Danny99 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I think the Temporal Cold War was born out of the studio executives wanting there to be a link to the other spin-off's. It was a bad call and the series suffered because of it.

    Archer could've been written with the fighter pilot swagger who has to deal with problems that come up, but he ended up being written like a whiny, petulant child most of the time. Tucker was also going this route, but was eventually sorted out and became a popular character.

    I've been watching in again on Netflix recently. There is a lot in the early seasons that could've worked if the writing was sharper and the TCW was dropped.
     
    Noname Given likes this.
  5. Reanok

    Reanok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    I like Broken Bow alot I thought it was a great Pilot. The early history of Starfleet with Space exploration and the complications with the Vulcans and Klingons and suliban made it interesting story for the Characters. One of my favorite scenes was Hoshi teryng to translate what The Klingon was saying about Stinky boots and telling Klang to to be quiet was funny.
     
  6. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Location:
    NX01 Bridge
    I never saw Enterprise as it aired. I bought the series in early 2006. The unabashed criticism of this series is unbelievable.

    I enjoyed Broken Bow. I would rank it below Emissary and Caretaker but above Encounter at Farpoint.

    Something else that confounds me is the holier than thou criticism of the decon scenes. Trek now isn't allowed to be sexy? This procedure makes sense as a precursor to the transporters detecting and filtering everything harmful out. It's not like they just threw the gorgeous female in there by herself, lots of equal screen time for males and females here. It’s seems very progressive.

    I was impressed with Backula from the start. He’s better at being a “Captain” out of the gate than any of the spin-off Captains.

    Personally I wish they would have not gone out to space so soon. I would have preferred to have seen more the struggles we saw in in First Flight to open the series.

    Love all members of the cast. Nice to see Vaughn Armstrong’s face in a meaningful part in trek for a change. Great actor in my book. Also love how the Vulcan’s are different than we know them to be. Room for growth and back story there. Loved how Archer had to go get Hoshi.

    Loved the new alien species as well. Just because we hadn’t ever heard of the Suliban doesn’t mean they didn’t exist. I’m glad we got to meet more “new” species as the series progressed as well as the old familiar ones.

    The "look" of this series is AWESOME!. The attention to detail in the design of NX-01 is out of this world!

    3.5 out of 4 stars for me. 4 had they stayed home for awhile.
     
    HopefulRomantic and Vger23 like this.
  7. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    I think Broken Bow isn't a bad start to the series but the Klingons showing up so early felt like betting all at the Dabo wheel on their first spin.

    I always felt the series really needed to take it slow and build up to encounters with the familiar races.

    It's why I think the encounter with the Andorians is one of the few introductions which really worked.
     
    Yanks likes this.
  8. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    I was surprised by how much I liked Broken Bow. It's my favorite pilot. And I felt very disappointed by how I felt the early seasons of ENT failed to live up to the strong opener.
     
    Yanks likes this.
  9. XCV330

    XCV330 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Location:
    L5
    It's a good opener. It took awhile for another episode to stand up to the quality of Broken Bow and I think that hurt Enterprise tremendously. It's a few weeks from the lofty goals of Broken bow to being offered roasted "Digger meat"

    And I agree with others, NX-01 looked great. I always liked the design. Sure, I would have liked something like a Daedalus or a something inspired by Okazaki, but the needs of most viewers outweigh the needs of the fans. NX-01 needed to look really good for the TV and it did.
     
  10. JRTStarlight

    JRTStarlight Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    Location:
    Astral Plane
    What that Digger meat actually roasted? I thought it was raw.

    Ah, he said it was under cooked. But by that I thought he was saying it was raw.
     
    XCV330 likes this.
  11. JRTStarlight

    JRTStarlight Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    Location:
    Astral Plane
    The wonderful thing about Diggers
    Is Diggers are wonderfully neat!
    Their tops are made out of armor
    Their bottoms are made out of meat!
    They're diggy, giggy, not too biggy,
    Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun!
    But the most wonderful thing about Diggers is
    There's enough for everyone.
     
  12. Flork

    Flork Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2017
    There's a great deal of xenophobia and sexism in the pilot that's cringe worthy, even more so today than when the episode decbuted.
     
  13. JRTStarlight

    JRTStarlight Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    Location:
    Astral Plane
    I'm sure there probably is, but what sexism did you have in mind? Examples are nice.

    Still, in the TOS episode I watched today, Elaan of Troyius, Kirk's comment about how in all the galaxy only Vulcan women can claim to behave logically, was pretty sexist. It was mostly a throw away joke, but it is a sexists one.

    Was what you had in mind worse than that?
     
  14. ScottJ85

    ScottJ85 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Yeah, large parts of TOS fall under the heading of "very progressive and forward-thinking for its time".
     
  15. Flork

    Flork Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2017
    Except that TOS was made 40 years earlier. It's funny that so many fans tend not to care if the tech and aesthetic reflect today's capacity because "good story is more important than canon/continuity" but somehow think it's okay to keep the sexism, racism, xenophobia, etc., from previous time periods many decades later.

    I was going to start finding clips, but this guy's overview deals with some of the racism/xenophobia:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypb66EgZieY

    This scene with the "sweet spot" quickly goes to lockerroom guy talk, which the two then smirk about later in the episode:



    We have our heroes later ogling the "butterfly" dancers, who are also offered up essentially as prostitutes:



    There are other moments, as well as an underlying tone of negativity toward the two woman characters. T'Pol is treated as a smug foil for much of the episode (and Archer is often proven right in his criticism of her), while Hoshi is something of a whiny airhead in many scenes. There are no corresponding men characters treated with the same disdain.

    While there may be many ways to rationalize the treatment -- it's a prequel to Pike/Kirk's sexist era being the most tired and obvious -- it doesn't change the presence of such. For a 21st century show, it's not exactly unusual either, but it doesn't speak well to the constant droning on about how respectful to diversity Star Trek is. But given the writers for the show and their reputations -- catsuits for some women characters in TNG, DS9, and VOY, for instance -- it's not surprising.
     
  16. Cox of Seagulls

    Cox of Seagulls Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Oh no men talking about sex and women, how horrific. Things should be totally sterile and sexless.
     
  17. JRTStarlight

    JRTStarlight Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    Location:
    Astral Plane
    Like when the Bechdel test says two women talking about a man isn't a step forward for feminism, should two men talking about a women really be a step backwards?

    I just worry little distinction is sometimes made between a sexist or racist comment, and a person who is habitually sexist or racist in many, if not most of their comments. Or the idea that if you show a dyed in the wool sexist pig, like the dancer's pimp, you are perpetuating some belief that behavior is O.K. rather than just admitting it's part of the reality of a fictional setting in that seedy dangerous place, much like the real world. To refrain from any suggestion that activity might exist by taking pains to never show it seems less realistic, and by showing it, it might invite comment and discussion that could only further social change.

    Finally, I'm uncomfortable when somebody tells me T'Pol is only dressed that way for sexist reasons, but it seems to assume a woman can never or would never make that choice of wardrobe for herself.

    Anyway, there's more gray area there than many might admit, and terms like black or white, 1 or 0, don't translate well to sexist or not sexist, racist or not racist as opposed to terms like more racist or sexist or less racist or sexist when comparing two concrete examples.

    I like to think of myself as a feminist, but if Broken Bow didn't offend me, does that mean I'm disqualified? And I didn't care for that guy's analysis in the provided link (didn't even pronounce the title correctly, let alone many other terms - like he wasn't a Trek fan but did a review on it anyway???).

    Of course, YMMV.
     
  18. Flork

    Flork Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2017
    It's funny how Star Trek fans say they are all about diversity but bristle so easily at the idea that there could be sexism and racism. Out comes the rationalizations. It's not just a question of whether or not it offended you personally but a question of whether it offended others. But you asked, and the question was answered with examples. Your approval or agreement is not required.
     
    Michael likes this.
  19. Danny99

    Danny99 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I have no problem with sex in Star Trek, but Trek has always handled it so badly. Explain to me why T'Pol's uniform had to be skin tight. I have never seen a military officer wear anything like that.
     
  20. JRTStarlight

    JRTStarlight Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    Location:
    Astral Plane
    But it's not just a question of whether or not it offends you, personally, either, for something to actually be sexist or racist, but far, far more people than that. If you disagree with any particular rationalization, fine, but to dis rationalizations in general just suggests one has closed their mind on the subject and doesn't wish to discuss it further.

    Yes, I asked, and I didn't find your examples of sexism or racism to be overly compelling, or more to the point, your offered link to the review to be that well done, but I can completely understand if those items offended you. Can you understand how I can be a feminist and yet they didn't offend me?

    Regardless, I wasn't suggesting you needed my approval of anything to feel the way you do, so please don't suggest I thought you needed it or even wanted it or that I was giving it, or that I'm bristling at the thought there is sexism or racism on television today, including Trek. I'm sure there is. I was just curious to which scenes you felt were sexist or racist. You told me. I told you how I felt about them.

    Why does T'Pol's (it may not be a "uniform") clothing have to be skintight? It doesn't. Why is it? You'd have to ask her. I suspect she likes it, attitudes about one's sexuality are more relaxed in that time, or in Vulcan culture, and other similar things. It may even be more efficient, like hurriedly getting into a spacesuit would be easier. But that's about the characters and the fictional setting. If you mean why did the show's producers put her in that, it's because sex sells and helps the ratings. Is that sexist? I'd say no, unless the actor didn't want to do it and was forced to do it, but I hear Jolene was fine with it and had more customs than any other character in Trek (like 40 outfits).
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017