Breen ass-pull?

[Quinton O'Connor]

With one particular Ferengi vessel bumping into the NX-01 in 2151, I imagine there has to have been a few name drops here and there over the next 213-odd years.

Of course, now I'm referencing an early ENT episode as support of an argument, and that's generally frowned-upon.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

*cough* it was actually the Ferengi *cough*

Which I always find weird. "The Ferengi in the gorilla suit has to go." But at the time of Farpoint there hadn't been official First Contact with the Ferengi yet. I'm sure there's some way around it, but basically its a continuity error on behalf of the writers, and its always irks me a little when I watch it, that I can never fully enjoy the scene because of it.

Well, knowing that a species exists isn't the same as knowing their name, nor is that first contact, nor is that first "official" contact. No reason to assume that they wouldn't be aware of the species' name before they'd made first "official" contact.

On the other hand, if the only thing you know about a species is their name, how would you ever even understand a joke about them? Jokes usually depend on a certain amount of pre-existing knowledge (unless it's a joke about how a species is so mysterious that no one knows anything about them).

 

[USS KG5]

I'm finishing up my DS9 rewatch and I was startled at how out of the blue the Breen being some intergalactic badass species was forced into the final stretch. I think they were mentioned two, maybe three, times before that in the history of Trek. Either it's been too long or I'd simply forgotten, but it was startling to say the least.

It never really bothered me that much. One thing Trek only intermittently puts across is just how unimaginably vast space actually is.

If we go with an average size of the Milky Way, say 200 billion stars, and assume the Federation is practically close to 5% of it, that leaves 10 billion stars to explore. Assuming one starship could explore one star system a week, and that the Federation have 1000 ships exploring new stars at any one time, at my calculation it would still take them over 192,000 years to explore them all!

Basically the Feds know next to nothing about even their corner of the galaxy, there are likely mysteries within a few days journey from Earth!

 

[Overgeeked]

On the other hand, if the only thing you know about a species is their name, how would you ever even understand a joke about them? Jokes usually depend on a certain amount of pre-existing knowledge (unless it's a joke about how a species is so mysterious that no one knows anything about them).

No reason so assume that they only knew their name. They easily could have a fair amount of relevant information on the species without having officially made first contact.

It never really bothered me that much. One thing Trek only intermittently puts across is just how unimaginably vast space actually is.

If we go with an average size of the Milky Way, say 200 billion stars, and assume the Federation is practically close to 5% of it, that leaves 10 billion stars to explore. Assuming one starship could explore one star system a week, and that the Federation have 1000 ships exploring new stars at any one time, at my calculation it would still take them over 192,000 years to explore them all!

Basically the Feds know next to nothing about even their corner of the galaxy, there are likely mysteries within a few days journey from Earth!

Sure. Space is big, even at the scale we're assuming the Fed is, they only account for a small fraction of the galaxy... granted. The trouble is, the Breen are simultaneously close enough to get a fleet of ships to Cardassia quickly... and launch an assault on Earth... but also so far away that the Fed knows absolutely nothing about them. Bwah?

 

[Jedi_Master]

Prior to the last few seasons of DS9 the Breen were rarely referenced, and not really all that well known among the general fan community.
Then over the course of some episodes we learned they have greenish cool looking ships, some special energy sucking gizmo, wear helmets and puffy coats, sound like broken Speak and Spells and want to take over Romulus and Earth.

Doesn't seem like the writers really spent a lot of time fleshing them out.

 

[Richard Baker]

I just think it is wonderful that we finally found a species that the Universal Translator cannot figure out WTF they are saying...

Extra points for asymmetrical ships also...

 

[USS KG5]

Sure. Space is big, even at the scale we're assuming the Fed is, they only account for a small fraction of the galaxy... granted. The trouble is, the Breen are simultaneously close enough to get a fleet of ships to Cardassia quickly... and launch an assault on Earth... but also so far away that the Fed knows absolutely nothing about them. Bwah?

You saw the maths right? Practically speaking its likely there are star systems technically within Fed space they know naff all about.

Mostly when told to get stuffed at first contact Starfleet do go away and not come back, they would not follow this up by spying to ascertain military strength.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

I liked the Breen. They where badass and mysterious in DS9.

 

[Timo]

I just think it is wonderful that we finally found a species that the Universal Translator cannot figure out WTF they are saying...

...Or just a species that values its privacy enough to only speak through scramblers in public?

Or jammers, for that matter. Weyoun understood the Breen easily enough; might be his UT wasn't being jammed, while everybody else's (including the audience's) was.

Extra points for asymmetrical ships also...

Too bad there isn't much variety, though.

Except in size. Perhaps that jives with the VOY reference to biotech? These ships start out really small, then gradually grow and frustrate all our attempts at making size comparisons and determining just how long those Dominion cruisers really are...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Go-Captain]

I figured the Breen were even weaker than the Cardassians before the war, but because the Breen came into the war late and fresh, they were stronger than the Carsassians at that point. After the Breen's energy dampener gets defeated, their ships go down pretty easily. Even their attack on Earth left extremely minimal damage, just a busted Golden Gate bridge.

 

[Ithekro]

The Breen ships probably only got off potshots at Earth rather than aiming due to Starfleet's defense systems (for once they aren't turned off or swept away by some superior alien power or broken codes). Also whatever ships were in the Sol system. The Breen might have come in cloaked, but they didn't use the energy dampener weapon at Earth. Otherwise Sisko and the fleet would have been aware of it prior to going to Chintoka.

Perhaps Breen ships come in two flavors. Cloaking or energy dampening. The power needed is too much to have both installed on their ships.

 

[Timo]

Both abilities seem recent enough an addition to the Breen arsenal - the Breen are supposedly arch-enemies of the Cardassian Union, and it would be odd for them not to have used those abilities to defeat the Cardassians.

Then again, if they are using their supertech sparingly, exclusively in engagements where they are certain to leave no survivors, then this might tie in to their reputation of deviousness and their secretive nature. They don't employ their tech willy-nilly, they dedicate it to enforcing their privacy! That old Klingon fleet might have succumbed to Breen energy dampers centuries ago; the Cardassians might be conventionally more powerful than the Confederacy, but their every attempt at an incursion into Breen space likewise ends in the total disappearance of the invasion force...

Would Breen cloaks suffer from power problems? Klingon ones are low-power systems - the cloak of the BoP in ST4 soldiers on even after transporters fail, and Quark and Rom can manhandle a cloaking device that is self-contained enough to cloak itself. Which makes it all the more mysterious why every species isn't equipping its ships, from largest to very smallest, with a cloak or a dozen "just in case".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[USS Triumphant]

the cloak of the BoP in ST4 soldiers on even after transporters fail

You're assuming that was a general power failure rather than a specific failure of the transporters. The car can be running just fine, don't matter how much power is coming from the battery or alternator if the radio done blowed up - it ain't comin' on.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

I liked how the Breen suddenly appeared on the scene. They have been name-dropped a few times previously, so we knew they existed and clearly no one knew just what a bad-ass force they were, so it came as much of a surprise to the viewers as it did to the characters.

Agreed and.. .

I know this would take away some of the mystery, but I do wish we'd see/hear more about the Breen's culture, as well as that of the Tholians.

Agreed again.

I remember hearing comments about the Breen prior to DS9 and hoping we'd eventually see them in show.

 

[Timo]

You're assuming that was a general power failure rather than a specific failure of the transporters.

Well, it was explicitly a power failure that stopped Scotty from transporting. And that's something that clearly developed gradually, as the heroes originally did frivolous transporting such as with Spock after Gillian drove him to the park.

The transporters petered out before the cloak did; what other systems on the ship might have been affected, we don't know, as the ship does nothing else until Scotty restores power.

Incidentally, was it Scotty's own fault that the crystals failed? On Vulcan, he said he "converted the dilithium sequencer into something a little less primitive"... Did he really know what he was doing?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Cpt. Kyle Amasov]

I take the Breen over any bumpy forehead of the week. Talarians or Ktarians come to my mind - the implication was they are both quite influential and/or powerful. But both fall into the latter category, and would have been boring next to Cardassians, Jem'Hadar and Vorta.
Maybe the Miradorn. That never went anywhere, even though I got the feeling that they were supposed to be bigger players during DS9's early seasons.
I know chronologically, they were not invented yet, but I think it would have been cool to have a species like the Son'a on DS9 and resolve the mystery of why they joined the Dominion in Insurrection.

 

[Leviathan]

waitwaitwaitwait...

The Breen weren't pulled out of anyones rectal organs. This is a simple case of plagarism.

 

[Ithekro]

I've always taken ST4 as all remaining power was being channeled into the cloaking device because the needed that to stay up. Taking the older Romulan model seemed to take a lot of power.

The Klingon units may have become redesigned around the time the prototype "fire when cloaked" BoP came out so that the power requirements were dictated by the size of the area needed to cloak. Cloaking itself could be easy, low power (or at least the power of something like a phaser power cell), but cloaking a starship requires much more power.

The Breen cloaks are mentioned but I don't recall seeing them used in the show. Though we didn't get to see them all that long in the show either. A cloaking device would make it possible to get a fleet to Earth, even if the Klingons never managed to do that. One would guess the Federation has enough tracking sytems to get at least a small amount of warning about cloaked ships coming from Romulan or Klingon Space towards the core systmes. But they might not have those systems in place to detect cloaked ships coming from Breen Space, as that was not considered enough of a threat. Though it seems there were enough ships in Sol or nearby to deal with the Breen.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

You're assuming that was a general power failure rather than a specific failure of the transporters.

Well, it was explicitly a power failure that stopped Scotty from transporting. And that's something that clearly developed gradually, as the heroes originally did frivolous transporting such as with Spock after Gillian drove him to the park.

The transporters petered out before the cloak did; what other systems on the ship might have been affected, we don't know, as the ship does nothing else until Scotty restores power.

Incidentally, was it Scotty's own fault that the crystals failed? On Vulcan, he said he "converted the dilithium sequencer into something a little less primitive"... Did he really know what he was doing?

Timo Saloniemi

On the other hand, the whole you can't fire while cloaked rule was originally established on the basis of the Cloaking Device sucking up so much power that you had nothing left to power the weapons...

 

[Mk_Sn]

They were mentioned in TNG a few times I think? But finally shown in DS9. For whatever reason, they look like Princess Leia's disguise in Return of the Jedi, and then get revealed out of the blue as the series is ending to be a powerful and badass species. It's kind of cool, but too late to make them out to be anything seriously threatening, since there wasn't enough time to flesh them out.

The Breen cloaks are mentioned but I don't recall seeing them used in the show.

For whatever reason, unless I'm mistaken, the Trek universe basically makes it so only the Klingons and Romulans have cloaking devices. I never got that.