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Brandon Routh leaving Superman?

^^^
Cool. I think with regard to Superman, people would be fine with quick flashbacks or a montage of the origin, but that a lot of people would rather not see the whole thing in detail again - the destruction of Krypton, baby Kal-El found by the Kents, Clark growing up in Smallville as his powers kick in, Clark moving to Metropolis and becoming Superman for the first time, everyone reacting to this amazing new superhero - all of the things covered in the '78 movie.
 
How can people call Superman a deadbeat dad if he didn't know that Lois was pregnant when he left to Krypton.

The argument goes that he "should have known anyway", or done a bunch of x-ray checkups on her or something.


Yeah, sounds pretty stupid to me too. lol
 
^^^
Cool. I think with regard to Superman, people would be fine with quick flashbacks or a montage of the origin, but that a lot of people would rather not see the whole thing in detail again - the destruction of Krypton, baby Kal-El found by the Kents, Clark growing up in Smallville as his powers kick in, Clark moving to Metropolis and becoming Superman for the first time, everyone reacting to this amazing new superhero - all of the things covered in the '78 movie.

Right. I don't think the problem is the origin; it is having to sit through a linear retelling of his life that's the problem. Rebooted or not, we've seen that movie.

Superman Returns: at this point it probably doesn't even matter anymore if it is a good movie or not. It seems pretty clear (to me) that the window to continue that version has closed and a new direction is probably for the best.
 
I didn't hate SR (the mini-gun and plane rescue scenes were very cool and lifting the island was pretty epic, no matter what it was made of), but I don't care whether the next one is a sequel or reboot or whatever, just make it already. As for the other subject...

Why is it superhero movies invariably require an exhaustive origin story? When John McClane steps into another terrorist/thief plot and starts blowing people away, no one sitting in the theatre goes, "Wait, what happened to him when he was younger to make him into the badass he is today?"

No one gives a shit about John McClane's days at the Police Academy or the rainy-day afternoons watching the Lone Ranger on tv.

Why? Expository backstory or flashback scenes are only important when they directly impact the events of the film as it occurs, in a meaningful way that couldn't be infered simply by watching the film unfold in relative realtime.

What are Superman's powers? Show us. What are his weaknesses? SHOW US. Show us in movie time what he can or cannot do in a plot that is FAR REMOVED from his first days on Earth. Show us Superman taking on impossible foes single-handedly (building sized robots are good). Show him laid low by green-glowing Kryptonite. He's an alien? Have him refered to as such. I don't care what planet he came from. Don't need to see it, don't need to know its name, don't need to watch it die. I don't need to watch him get used to his abilities or establish his Clark Kent/Superman dual persona. Life on the Kent farm? Boring. Getting a job at the Daily Planet? Boring. Meeting Lois Lane AGAIN. BORING.

Get on with the show already. A five minute origin montage is TOO LONG. Stop this rebooting and move on. Load the game from a level 2 save point and get to the heroics already. The opening cutscene has been burned into my retinas.
 
SR was a had a shitty teenage romance plot using supposedly adult characters. It has a few action scenes akin to Superman posing for the camera, but nothing great. Those were my problems.

Routh I have nothing against. He didn't do much in SR other than float around looking forlorn, but I don't blame him for that.
 
I liked Superman Returns. Didn't love it. I appreciated the respect they gave to the S:TM. I don't feel that Brandon Routh contributed to what was wrong with the movie. He was a good Superman who did the best with what he had.
 
I think rebooting is a dumb idea.

Superman Returns was not a failure. Did it underperform? Yes. Guess what? So did Batman Begins. And the two film's budgets were pretty identical -- the only thing people presume that Returns had a higher budget because of the accumulated costs from the previous unproduced attempts, which quite frankly shouldn't count.

Yet The Dark Knight was an even bigger success. I think with Singer's proven track record at making a bigger, better and more successful sequel (X2), I think it is very dumb on WB's part to sit idly by.

The solution should have been simple: reduce the budget, and make it a more action-packed story, which Singer had wanted to do in the first place!

Now, it's been three years, and a sequel should be out in theaters by now. But it's not.

WB keeps on missing the ball with this franchise.

Agreed entirely.

The problem is, and I speak as a fan of SR, while Batman Begins may not have been as big a hit as expected, it was received a lot more positively among those who did see it than SR was. It consequently did better on DVD and got a good word of mouth which led to genuine anticipation of its sequel. I'm not sure that there was quite that widespread desire for a SR sequel, even among its afficionados.

SR got good critical reviews but fan response was divided, lukewarm even. And while I liked it, I didn't leave the cinema anxious to see what happened next, in the same way that I did with BB. With BB, for the first time with a Batmovie, I felt that they'd captured Batman just right, created an onscreen universe that I wanted to see more of. With Superman, yes, I would have gone to see a sequel, but I didn't have quite that 'What next?' buzz. Perhaps it was because there had already been two great Superman movies from my childhood, perhaps it was because I felt that Spacey's Luthor was too much a retread of Hackman's (one of my least fave things about the Donner movies), because Kate Bosworth was a lacklustre Lois Lane (try saying that after a few beers) ... And I'm not an anti Jason Lane person, but I didn't feel that the Lois/Jason/Richard/ Superman dynamic was all that interesting and I felt that Singer and Co had somewhat written themselves into a corner.

Having said that, I am disappointed that it looks like Routh won't be back (though it's possible he will) as he was the best thing in SR, IMHO. When you think that we might have had Nic Cage, Josh Hartnett, Jude Law or other totally miscast actors as The Man of Steel, I don't understand how people can find fault with his charming, pitch perfect performance. What a shame if he were to be the George Lazenby of the Superman series.

I still think they could and should bring him back even in a new continuity or reboot of the series. He just looks and sounds like Superman. The average cinemagoer will accept that he's Superman - they won't waste too much time and energy dwelling on why he's surrounded by a different cast. I mean, if Judi Dench can return as M in a rebooted 007 series, I don't see why he can't reprise the Man of Steel, particularly if there's a sustantial gap between SR and the next movie - as now seems inevitable.
 
^ Not only that, but with all the time that's passed, we won't have to listen to people complain about Routh looking "too young" anymore. :D
 
The failure of Superman Returns wasn't Routh's fault, but Bryan Singer's. The guy had - as strange as this sounds - too much reverence for the source material, the whole thing was an omage to previous Superman comics, tv shows, and movies. Watching it was like walking through a museum, and about that exciting (nothing against museums).

As for a reboot, I think they are fools if they go that route. You reboot a franchise when there is something wrong with the narrative, inconvenient facts that you need to erase. But aside from Lois being married - which I don't see as a big deal - there is nothing wrong with the current state of Superman's world. Granted, it's a little odd to say "I and II happened, and then then SR happens years later, and forget about III and IV," but really, who wants to remember III and IV? A reboot, even if told differently, would still be forced to cover lots of familiar territory: Jor-El, Kansas, Lois and the Daily Planet, Luthor, Kryptonite. In other words, most of what SR already revisited. I say just start a new arc in the existing universe and let Lois be married, let Lex vanish for a while, and for pity's sake, let Superman fight an actual supervillain.
 
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The failure of Superman Returns wasn't Routh's fault, but Bryan Singer's. The guy had - as strange as this sounds - too much reverence for the source material, the whole thing was an omage to previous Superman comics, tv shows, and movies. Watching it was like walking through a museum, and about that exciting (nothing against museums).

I think Singer's only miscalculation was trying to make an arty and poetic superhero movie-- which just wasn't what most fans were looking for or expecting. Personally I thought it was a nice change of pace from all the cartoony, overblown FX spectacles we're usually subjected to.

Although I would agree it still could have used a bit more action and excitement...
 
Idea:

Since Batman is now on the run as of the end of "Dark Knight", reintroduce Superman as the new "hero" sent to catch Batman. :)
 
A reboot, even if told differently, would still be forced to cover lots of familiar territory: Jor-El, Kansas, Lois and the Daily Planet, Luthor, Kryptonite.
There are approaches whereby some of the traditional elements of Superman's back story that have been overexposed lately would be dealt with in passing or not at all, while others would be dealt with organically within a largely in media res storyline.
I think Singer's only miscalculation was trying to make an arty and poetic superhero movie-- which just wasn't what most fans were looking for or expecting.
Yeah, pretty much. Also I think a lot of fans were uncomfortable with Superman being portrayed as such a quiet, withdrawn figure. While a certain amount of angst about finding his place in the world and reconciling his alien nature and heritage with his Earthbound one has long been a part of Superman storytelling, the public is used to seeing Superman as, at heart, a confident, optimistic, well-adjusted hero. And of course most people - including myself - are dying to see all of the weight of modern FX capabilities brought to bear to bring eye-popping action set pieces to life wherein Superman battles the likes of Brainiac, Metallo, Parasite, the hordes of Apokolips, and so forth.
 
Superman The Movie and it's sequel unfortunately had to deal with Superman's pre-crisis powers and origin and of course back then there was no Crisis yet so all of those things were totally normal. Seeing the movies now with our current Post-Crisis knowledge of his status it would be silly but it's still a iconic movie.

The average movie goer doesn't know what Crisis is. There is no concept of pre-crisis, post-crisis, or anything else. There is just Superman. 90% of the comics continuity is only know by 10% of the fans. Any movie needs to focus on the essence of the character. If it gets bogged down in the nitty gritty details of comic continuity it'll fail.
 
I think Singer's only miscalculation was trying to make an arty and poetic superhero movie-- which just wasn't what most fans were looking for or expecting.
Yeah, pretty much. Also I think a lot of fans were uncomfortable with Superman being portrayed as such a quiet, withdrawn figure. While a certain amount of angst about finding his place in the world and reconciling his alien nature and heritage with his Earthbound one has long been a part of Superman storytelling, the public is used to seeing Superman as, at heart, a confident, optimistic, well-adjusted hero. And of course most people - including myself - are dying to see all of the weight of modern FX capabilities brought to bear to bring eye-popping action set pieces to life wherein Superman battles the likes of Brainiac, Metallo, Parasite, the hordes of Apokolips, and so forth.

Yeah it's possible Singer took the the quiet, withdrawn thing a little TOO far. Although I have no problem in principle with making Superman a bit more human and identifiable.

I mean, he WAS born and raised among human beings, after all. This noble, godlike, ultra-confident guy in the comics just never felt believable to me-- and it certainly doesn't seem consistent with his humble origin story. Clearly Singer felt the same way too.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly understand the appeal of the inspiring, larger-than-life icon. But I also think there's plenty of room for a more human and relatable interpretation of the character too.
 
I don't think Superman has to be too noble and godlike for people to be pleased with how he's represented on screen. If you go too far in that direction it'll distance him from the audience. But I do think you need to stay true to the classic dichotomy of the character, which is that he is at once an alien outsider of awesome power and an average All-American midwestern guy.

By stressing Superman's alienation and isolation Singer actually pushed Superman more into the realm of being godlike - albeit a highly fallible "god" - and further distanced from humanity than any previous screen incarnation. It's an interesting take on the character, and an artistically valid one, but it's just not what most moviegoers want to see in a Superman film in my opinion.
 
At the end of the day S:R was boring shite. Nobody except for die hard Singer fans cared about it. Hell, not even WB cares about it. :lol:
 
Why is it superhero movies invariably require an exhaustive origin story? When John McClane steps into another terrorist/thief plot and starts blowing people away, no one sitting in the theatre goes, "Wait, what happened to him when he was younger to make him into the badass he is today?"

No one gives a shit about John McClane's days at the Police Academy or the rainy-day afternoons watching the Lone Ranger on tv.

Why? Expository backstory or flashback scenes are only important when they directly impact the events of the film as it occurs, in a meaningful way that couldn't be infered simply by watching the film unfold in relative realtime.

What are Superman's powers? Show us. What are his weaknesses? SHOW US. Show us in movie time what he can or cannot do in a plot that is FAR REMOVED from his first days on Earth. Show us Superman taking on impossible foes single-handedly (building sized robots are good). Show him laid low by green-glowing Kryptonite. He's an alien? Have him refered to as such. I don't care what planet he came from. Don't need to see it, don't need to know its name, don't need to watch it die. I don't need to watch him get used to his abilities or establish his Clark Kent/Superman dual persona. Life on the Kent farm? Boring. Getting a job at the Daily Planet? Boring. Meeting Lois Lane AGAIN. BORING.

Get on with the show already. A five minute origin montage is TOO LONG. Stop this rebooting and move on. Load the game from a level 2 save point and get to the heroics already. The opening cutscene has been burned into my retinas.

:rolleyes: And that, my friends, is the epitome of shoddy and incompetent storytelling.

Nobody asks how John McClane got there because he's just a guy who joined the police. That's it. But Superman being from Krypton? That's important. His parents sending him to Earth because his world was dying? That's important. Completely ignoring that is doing a massive disservice to the character and to the audience. As is expecting them to go out and watch the Donner movie to know what the hell is going on. You don't want to see the origin story retold? That's a shame. But you HAVE to retell it, because you can NOT expect people to be familiar with the origin story from a 30-year-old movie to understand what the deal with the character is. That's just pure unadulterated laziness and shoddy storytelling.

Nevermind that it DOES have an impact and IS important. If we're going to have General Zod down the road then we need to know about Krypton. If we're going to have the Eradicator down the road then we need to know about Krypton. If we're going to have the Bottle City of Kandor, Doomsday, or any number of a million plots that originate from that, then we need to know about Krypton.

And there's nothing, nothing at all, that states that you can't have Superman starting out and not facing powerful opponents. Saying that that's the case is just creative bankruptcy, pure and simple. We saw Spider-Man in his first days as Spider-Man. And you know what? He didn't spend the entire movie fighting muggers and bank robbers. He fought the Green Goblin. Just because we're seeing Superman in his first days as Superman, that doesn't mean we can't get a movie where he's fighting Metallo, Parasite, giant robots, etc.

You may not care about these details, but frankly, a lot of the movie going audience ARE going to care. And when they get a movie that doesn't give them jack squat in the way of who Superman is, how he became Superman, etc, they're going to come out of that movie wondering why they were supposed to give a damn about him.
 
^^^
You still don't necessarily need to do a beat by beat origin story in the manner of the '78 film. There are ways and means to layer in all of that back story as needed within an in media res story.
 
You may not care about these details, but frankly, a lot of the movie going audience ARE going to care. And when they get a movie that doesn't give them jack squat in the way of who Superman is, how he became Superman, etc, they're going to come out of that movie wondering why they were supposed to give a damn about him.

And that's why the voice-over of the radio/TV show is so effective: "Faster than a speeding bullet. More powerful than a locomotive. Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. 'Look! Up in the sky!' 'It's a bird!' 'It's a plane!' 'No, it's Superman!' It's Superman; strange visitor from another planet with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men. Superman! Who can change the course of mighty rivers; bend steel in his bare hands; and who, in the guise of Clark Kent, mild-mannered reporter for a great metropolitan newspaper (or, ...for the Daily Planet), fights a never-ending battle for truth and justice, ("and the American Way" was added for the TV show)" Other versions have even added the phrase, "Rocketed to Earth from the doomed planet Krypton,..." So there you have really all you NEED to know about Superman in about 30 seconds. You could have some of this info related as part of a news report or as the beginnings of an interview with Superman. Or presented as the title sequence as others have mentioned. There really is no need to do an in depth rehash of the origin story.
 
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