Boycotting Thor

[Myasishchev]

Yeah but is there any reference to Loki himself being a giant.. and more importantly where did the 'ethnic' thing go?

As a son of jotunar, is Loki not a jotunn? (Granted, it's an awfully reductionist angle to take on a nature myth which, boiled down, represents Farbauti or "lightning" mating with Laufey or "leaves" to create Loki or "fire").

In any event, even if he is Aesir, he stops being Aesir when he leads an army of giants on a ship made of nail clippings and kills Heimdall, or something to that effect. (Or probably earlier, when they put him under the ground in his torture cave. I never fully understood why they disembowled his kid to make bondage gear, instead of disemboweling Loki. I assume it has something to do with Odin being a dick and/or bound by prophecy.)

You and George Bernard Shaw are peas in a pod on that one.

Bitchin'.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Here in Europe, third-world immigrants are creating rapidly growing "tumors" of their own cultures inside our cities, refusing to adapt to us and to honor our customs, even to learn our language. Those people are a major problem.

Speaking as a European, I don't recognise that picture.

Exactly. Large-scale immigration is a new phenomenon in some European countries (mine included), and there will be bumps along the way, but in the end immigrants will "adapt" to the new environment, just like at the same time our "culture" will adapt to them. The UK is hardly ethnically white-only any more, but as you noted, Elba is British: is he exactly the same as Tommy Atkins? No. But in the meantime, what it means to be British changed, while still being, you know, British. That's the rule of nature: adapt or perish. And if you ever have eaten a kebab from a Turkish kiosk, you are already starting to adapt. By the third generation, immigrants are fully integrated into the resident culture, and they will join the ranks of the "natives" worrying about the hordes of new immigrants at the doors.

 

[Kegg]

^
There's other ways this works, too.

That is I eat a lot of pizza. I often go to an Italian diner run by an Italian-Irish guy, and I have been doing so for a solid decade. None of that existed twenty years ago.

But damn they make a fine pizza.

Immigraton has definitely had its debates here, leading to a reform of immigration law (it used to be if you were born anywhere on the island of Ireland - including the North - you could get Irish citizenship, resulting in women in late pregnancies coming to Ireland so their children could get EU passports), but frankly I've always seen it as a good thing and I'd likely be a hypocrite if I thought anything else. The historic problem here was usually the other thing, emigration (a government report shortly after World War II predicted that at present emigration rates nobody would be living in Ireland come 2010 - that is the exact year they used), and that's again a problem in the present economic climate.

So as a rule I'm not big on treating immigrants incivilly. They want to come and live where I do and then work here? Sure, why not.

As a son of jotunar, is Loki not a jotunn? (Granted, it's an awfully reductionist angle to take on a nature myth which, boiled down, represents Farbauti or "lightning" mating with Laufey or "leaves" to create Loki or "fire").

Quite. I'm no expert on Norse myth, it's just the whole 'Loki is a giant' thing is one I'd never heard (and I've read it in various forms since childhood.)

 

[Temis the Vorta]

More on topic, I am surprised that nobody has noted that Nick Fury has changed ethnicity in the movies and the Ultimate line of comics. This is a much more relevant example than many of the ones mentioned earlier.

I don't recall Nick Fury ever being defined by his race. If Heimdall wasn't an alien, you could make an argument about his race but being an alien means all bets are off.

You're right that setting a black Nick Fury in WWII has historical logic problems. I hope they just avoid that.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They didn't make Nick Fury black. They made Nick Fury Samuel L Jackson. They wanted Sam if there was ever a movie, and hells bells if they didn't grease his ego and it worked.

This was shit that was happening 10 years ago almost.

but then they had to do almost anythign to distance themselves from this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury:_Agent_of_S.H.I.E.L.D._(film)

Ultimate nick Fury was actually the beta test for Captain America's Super Soldier Formula. So he's just as powerful as "cap" but expendible because that's what the negros were to uncle Sam back then. I think this came to light a few years later (our time) that nick Fury was a Super Soldier... here's the Kicker, when Ultimate Steve Rogers woke up in the hospital he KNEW it was a big trick because even if he had been asleep for a hundred years, they never would have let a negro raise to the rank of General... Meanwhile Waid is writing a story (right now!) about the first hours after regular captain America wakes up from the ice drift and he's all "This is a dream, this is not real, I'm going to have a dissociative episode, la deh dah!" Until he reads the Wikipedi page about WWII that FDR died before the war ended and he says "I could never have dreamed that" and he accepts the world around him thus getting his shit together.

Ultimate Captain America is a good soldier but he's an ass, or just a regular guy from the 40s who hadn't been taught better by 50, 60 years of goodspeak and corrective behaviour.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

They didn't make Nick Fury black. They made Nick Fury Samuel L Jackson.

Exactly!

 

[Skywalker]

You're right that setting a black Nick Fury in WWII has historical logic problems. I hope they just avoid that.

It wouldn't be a huge problem. Ultimate Nick Fury most likely would have served in the 92nd Infantry Division during World War II, which fought in Italy from 1944 to 1945. So it's not at all impossible for Captain America to meet Nick Fury in the movie.

 

[Professor Zoom]

They didn't make Nick Fury black. They made Nick Fury Samuel L Jackson.

Exactly!

A smart choice too...

 

[Trent Roman]

It wouldn't be a huge problem. Ultimate Nick Fury most likely would have served in the 92nd Infantry Division during World War II, which fought in Italy from 1944 to 1945. So it's not at all impossible for Captain America to meet Nick Fury in the movie.

The chronology is getting pretty stretched to say that the contemporary Nick Fury was also the Nick Fury of WWII, without an 'out' like the Ultimate line's beta-test super-soldier serum. Problem is, even the Buffalo Soldiers had a white commander, not a black one (and a right racist prick he was, too, by all accounts)--African-Americans did not get command positions. Assuming, of course, we still want Nick Fury to be leading the Howling Commandos.

For my part, I'd kill two birds with one stone, solve both the age and segretation issues by having a white WWII Nicholas Fury be the father (probably even grandfather would be best) of the one from Iron Man-era films. "Our" Nick Fury would be named after his heroic grandfather and continue the family tradition.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Turtletrekker]

So, you know, fuck these congenitally syphilitic inbreds.

Quote of the day. Thank you, Dennis.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It wouldn't be a huge problem. Ultimate Nick Fury most likely would have served in the 92nd Infantry Division during World War II, which fought in Italy from 1944 to 1945. So it's not at all impossible for Captain America to meet Nick Fury in the movie.

The chronology is getting pretty stretched to say that the contemporary Nick Fury was also the Nick Fury of WWII, without an 'out' like the Ultimate line's beta-test super-soldier serum. Problem is, even the Buffalo Soldiers had a white commander, not a black one (and a right racist prick he was, too, by all accounts)--African-Americans did not get command positions. Assuming, of course, we still want Nick Fury to be leading the Howling Commandos.

For my part, I'd kill two birds with one stone, solve both the age and segretation issues by having a white WWII Nicholas Fury be the father (probably even grandfather would be best) of the one from Iron Man-era films. "Our" Nick Fury would be named after his heroic grandfather and continue the family tradition.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

They have a super weapon they can't use because the US Army is segregated.

Strong as a dozen men, faster than most cars made in the 40s, increased acuity, processing and spacial positioning that he can practically shoot around corners while tackling and flipping tanks.

No pun intended but Fury would be black ops, irregular military and perhaps even a spy during the war the mirror opposite of how the Government chose to use Captain America that he would take point on a tactical group of special forces used for extreme missions.

 

[Kegg]

We're talking about a movie with a lot of outright fantasy elements. If a white man can have a super serum stuck into him that makes him into a great soldier and instead of wearing his comissioned uniform like everyone else he goes around dressed up in silly and a ludricously gaudy American flag costume...

...then the black guy gets to lead commandos.

 

[Forbin]

Just to chime in without having read most of the thread:
1) Yes, I think it makes perfect sense that Norse gods should all be portrayed by Norse-looking actors.
2) Those protesting racist bastards can all go to hell.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

I think Thor should have been Filipino.

 

[Guy Gardener]

We're talking about a movie with a lot of outright fantasy elements. If a white man can have a super serum stuck into him that makes him into a great soldier and instead of wearing his comissioned uniform like everyone else he goes around dressed up in silly and a ludricously gaudy American flag costume...

...then the black guy gets to lead commandos.

I was watching Earth's Mightiest heroes, the new Avengers cartoon, and according to them, WWII was the Allies vs. Hydra, with nary a mention ever of the Nazi Party.

Black guys lead black commandos fine. The army, and most of America was segregated. It's all quite sad but true, and if we don't want to scare the children (I think my kid was 5 when I told him that WWII was about how one group of people told another group of people that they weren't allowed to cook a third group of people in ovens. He didn't believe me.) maybe we'll hush up about the grimmer parts of history.

 

[theenglish]

We're talking about a movie with a lot of outright fantasy elements. If a white man can have a super serum stuck into him that makes him into a great soldier and instead of wearing his comissioned uniform like everyone else he goes around dressed up in silly and a ludricously gaudy American flag costume...

...then the black guy gets to lead commandos.

I was watching Earth's Mightiest heroes, the new Avengers cartoon, and according to them, WWII was the Allies vs. Hydra, with nary a mention ever of the Nazi Party.

Black guys lead black commandos fine. The army, and most of America was segregated. It's all quite sad but true, and if we don't want to scare the children (I think my kid was 5 when I told him that WWII was about how one group of people told another group of people that they weren't allowed to cook a third group of people in ovens. He didn't believe me.) maybe we'll hush up about the grimmer parts of history.

Well, the details of what was going on at the time were pretty vague. People didn't understand the extent of what the Nazis were doing.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I was just trying to give the kid nightmares.

And that shit about the trains running on time was a lie.

Countries got involved in WWII not for any grand principles but because they were being invaded or treaties forced them into defence of their allies.

If the Japanese hadn't attacked Pearl Harbour, Hilter would have died in his sleep somewhere near his 80th birthday and Nazi Germany would have covered half of Europe by the time they decided they had enough room to breath....

If you come into possession of a time machine please leave WWII alone.

Thank you.

 

[Captaindemotion]

It wouldn't be a huge problem. Ultimate Nick Fury most likely would have served in the 92nd Infantry Division during World War II, which fought in Italy from 1944 to 1945. So it's not at all impossible for Captain America to meet Nick Fury in the movie.

The chronology is getting pretty stretched to say that the contemporary Nick Fury was also the Nick Fury of WWII, without an 'out' like the Ultimate line's beta-test super-soldier serum.

But even in the prime Marvelverse, hasn't it been the case for some time that Fury has longevity as a result of some serum or other?

For my part, I'd kill two birds with one stone, solve both the age and segretation issues by having a white WWII Nicholas Fury be the father (probably even grandfather would be best) of the one from Iron Man-era films. "Our" Nick Fury would be named after his heroic grandfather and continue the family tradition.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

That works too. Though what are the odds of grandson and grandfather both losing an eye in the course of duty (assuming that you give Fury Sr the eyepatch too)?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

If the Japanese hadn't attacked Pearl Harbour, Hilter would have died in his sleep somewhere near his 80th birthday and Nazi Germany would have covered half of Europe by the time they decided they had enough room to breath....

Well, no. Maybe if he hadn't invaded the Soviet Union, that would be the case, but Pearl Harbor was only the final nail in the coffin. The United States' biggest contribution to the European war effort was through supplies. Lend lease to Russia helped turn that war, yes, but it happened covertly and wasn't related to anything the Japanese did.

 

[Kegg]

The United States was essentially attacking German ships in the summer of 1941, long before any formal declaration of war. Roosevelt was working towards inclining his nation to a war with Germany since the onset of World War II; Pearl Harbor made it a lot easier but the absence of Pearl Harbor I do not think would have prevented American entry.

Hell, consider that even though Pearl Harbor was an assault by the Japanese, the Americans agreed to prioritize defeating the Germans first.