Borg Vs Dominion
- Thread starter Papermoon
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I have to firmly fall down on the Jem Hadar on this one. The JH held their own against the combined fleets of Klingons, Romulans, Starfleet for an extended period even cut off from their GQ HQ. They conquered and held some key Federation worlds. With the Borg you just transmit a dose of the Federation flu and they're all tucked up in their little alcoves with the Starfleet sniffles. Usually just the one fleet (or the one ship playing it smart) can take care of them.
The Changeling's ability to mimic their mark is extraordinary. All they have to do is learn the machinery, tap in a few codes and the Borg are out for the count. Hard exactly to assimilate jelly either.
The Breen have alot of crafty tricks noone else thinks of. They could probably cook up something as well.
So as you can see the borg just don't impress me much.
The Changeling's ability to mimic their mark is extraordinary. All they have to do is learn the machinery, tap in a few codes and the Borg are out for the count. Hard exactly to assimilate jelly either.
The Breen have alot of crafty tricks noone else thinks of. They could probably cook up something as well.
So as you can see the borg just don't impress me much.
Ideally they would mutually annihilate each down to nothing remaining. Even all their technology would be gone.
Then everyone wins (except the Dominion and the Borg of course).
The Borg wouldn't be able to assimilate a founder, I think they might get a Jem'hadar, and I doubt they would have much but initial difficulty with the Breen.
The Dominion had the numbers and the soldiers for a conventional war against the Alpha Q, but the moment the Borg took out one ship and assimilated a few Jem, the Dominion's main battle force would be quickly wiped out simply because the Jem'hadar are fighters, not thinkers like the Federation or even the Romulans. They would simply try and pound and pound a cube until they ran out of ships and soldiers.
The Founders could put up a better fight but eventually the Borg would learn to assimilate them. Despite being a liquid species that can change into anything, they are still biological and those adaptive nanobots they use for assimilation would eventually adapt and conform to changeling cell structures.... The Borg after all have assimilated countless planets and species throughout the quadrants, I am sure they wouldn't take much time with Changelings.
Species 8472 was difficult because they lived in another dimension that played by different rules than our own dimension. Regardless of the Founders' abilities not being similar to other species in the galaxy, they still have to live by the rules of this universe and dimension... One that the Borg knows a heck of a lot about due to how many centuries they have been around and how many cultures they have assimilated (+their knowledge)
sure a few changelings could sneak on a few cubes and try an act like borg, but unless they can somehow tap into the collective and register as a borg, they'd be soon found out as the one Borg who isn't part of the hive and would be pretty screwed.
maybe... Maybe they could sabotage one or two cubes, but they wouldn't get as far as taking the whole collective down.
The Founders could put up a better fight but eventually the Borg would learn to assimilate them. Despite being a liquid species that can change into anything, they are still biological and those adaptive nanobots they use for assimilation would eventually adapt and conform to changeling cell structures.... The Borg after all have assimilated countless planets and species throughout the quadrants, I am sure they wouldn't take much time with Changelings.
Species 8472 was difficult because they lived in another dimension that played by different rules than our own dimension. Regardless of the Founders' abilities not being similar to other species in the galaxy, they still have to live by the rules of this universe and dimension... One that the Borg knows a heck of a lot about due to how many centuries they have been around and how many cultures they have assimilated (+their knowledge)
sure a few changelings could sneak on a few cubes and try an act like borg, but unless they can somehow tap into the collective and register as a borg, they'd be soon found out as the one Borg who isn't part of the hive and would be pretty screwed.
maybe... Maybe they could sabotage one or two cubes, but they wouldn't get as far as taking the whole collective down.
If Section 31 could make a virus to attack the Founders, then I think the Borg could learn to assimilate them.
Would the borg be able to overcome the Ketracel White problem? Or would the JH be ditched like the Kazon?
I think the Borg have an advantage over everyone based just on numbers alone. The Founders could pose a problem in that they may not phyiscally be able to assimilate them.
Using Voyager as a source I'd say the Borg would thrash the dominion in conventional warfare. They have tens of thousands of ships, and trillions of drones, whole planets of resources devoted to production.
The founders could play their infiltration game but any weird acting drones would be noticed and dealt with quickly providing the Borg information on the founders in the process.
The Jem'hadar might have suicide buttons they could tick on their necks but eventually they would get assimilated. Shrouding Borg.
Vorta would be eventually assimilated as well.
Unless the founders pull of some sort of virus or take out the Borg transwarp network or somehow mass produce enough Jem'har/acquire allies and somehow come out victorious in a conventional war. If they achieved the latter they would come out bleeding and probably reduced substantially. Though I doubt the whole weight of the Borg collective could be destroyed even with the Dominion's relentlessness and patience.
Even Admiral Janeway's damage done to the Borg in Endgame as heavy a blow it was combined with the Unimatrix Revolt didn't destroy the Borg, left them bleeding yes but not broken.
The founders could play their infiltration game but any weird acting drones would be noticed and dealt with quickly providing the Borg information on the founders in the process.
The Jem'hadar might have suicide buttons they could tick on their necks but eventually they would get assimilated. Shrouding Borg.
Vorta would be eventually assimilated as well.
Unless the founders pull of some sort of virus or take out the Borg transwarp network or somehow mass produce enough Jem'har/acquire allies and somehow come out victorious in a conventional war. If they achieved the latter they would come out bleeding and probably reduced substantially. Though I doubt the whole weight of the Borg collective could be destroyed even with the Dominion's relentlessness and patience.
Even Admiral Janeway's damage done to the Borg in Endgame as heavy a blow it was combined with the Unimatrix Revolt didn't destroy the Borg, left them bleeding yes but not broken.
It's a shame the Borg never featured on Deep Space Nine. I'd love to see a drone sticking its nanoprobes into a changeling. Maybe you'd see the big mass of goo changing from orange to green, and then morphing into another drone (maybe it would look like One). Perhaps it could then morph into a watery tube, jump down victims' throats and assimilate them from within.
The Borg were much more formidable than the Dominion. For one thing, the Borg had an ideology/program (assimilation of non-Borg worlds and species) that they followed to a tee. And they were a determined bunch, "resistance is futile".
What did the Jem Hadar fight for? The white? Obedience to the Founders?
I thought that as the series progressed the Jem Hadar and the Vorta started to come across as a lot less fearsome and intimidating than when they were first introduced.
In almost all of the battles that were shown between the Dominion and the Feds, the Feds consistently outwitted, out fought and outlasted the Jem Hadar. It was really only off-screen where the viewer was told that the Jem Hadar was having battlefield success and winning the war.
I remember "Rocks and Shoals" and "The siege of AR-558" where the Jem Hadar essentially made disastrous frontal assaults against Sisko and his fighters. The Jem Hadar didn't seem to change their tactics to get better results. And why didn't Jem Hadar soldiers consistently use their personal cloaking devices when they engaged in infantry combat as the war progressed?
The Borg were constantly modifying their shields and their tactics. Plus, the Borg were just more ruthless. When the Dominion and Cardassians occupied DS9 in season 6, the occupation didn't seem brutal as I anticipated. The occupation may not have been fun for Quark and his ilk, but it didn't seem brutal either.
Even Quark and his Ferengi mercenaries ("The Magnificent Ferengi") outwitted and outlasted their Dominion counterparts. The Vorta was way too lenient with Quark which contributed to his downfall. The Borg would wipe the floor with the Dominion.
What did the Jem Hadar fight for? The white? Obedience to the Founders?
I thought that as the series progressed the Jem Hadar and the Vorta started to come across as a lot less fearsome and intimidating than when they were first introduced.
In almost all of the battles that were shown between the Dominion and the Feds, the Feds consistently outwitted, out fought and outlasted the Jem Hadar. It was really only off-screen where the viewer was told that the Jem Hadar was having battlefield success and winning the war.
I remember "Rocks and Shoals" and "The siege of AR-558" where the Jem Hadar essentially made disastrous frontal assaults against Sisko and his fighters. The Jem Hadar didn't seem to change their tactics to get better results. And why didn't Jem Hadar soldiers consistently use their personal cloaking devices when they engaged in infantry combat as the war progressed?
The Borg were constantly modifying their shields and their tactics. Plus, the Borg were just more ruthless. When the Dominion and Cardassians occupied DS9 in season 6, the occupation didn't seem brutal as I anticipated. The occupation may not have been fun for Quark and his ilk, but it didn't seem brutal either.
Even Quark and his Ferengi mercenaries ("The Magnificent Ferengi") outwitted and outlasted their Dominion counterparts. The Vorta was way too lenient with Quark which contributed to his downfall. The Borg would wipe the floor with the Dominion.
Borg win. Their ships are faster, more durable, more united, have more knowledge, have allegedly been around for thousands of centuries whereas the dominion have only been around for 20 centuries. The Defiant was nearly destroyed against the Borg in First Contact compared to many instances where the Defiant has plowed through dominion fighters.
In a conventional war then the Borg, they control a substantial portion of the DQ and in a full scale war would devote a tremendous amount of their resources to it.
The dominion has lots of resources at its disposal but I think in a gotterdamerdungish slog the Borg would prevail.
The dominion has lots of resources at its disposal but I think in a gotterdamerdungish slog the Borg would prevail.
I initially thought it'd be the Borg, but I'm not really sure now.
The Dominion's strength isn't really it's technology, it's their disposable man power and ships. Once the founders realise what they're up against, they'd just start hurling ships at the cubes.
Either way, I'd say whoever wins the war won't be in any state to fight the alpha/beta quadrant races.
The Dominion's strength isn't really it's technology, it's their disposable man power and ships. Once the founders realise what they're up against, they'd just start hurling ships at the cubes.
Either way, I'd say whoever wins the war won't be in any state to fight the alpha/beta quadrant races.
Yeah it would be a struggle between two juggernauts. Either way there'd be casualties in the tens of billions.
TNG Borg win, Voyager Borg lose.
Borg send a cube at the Dominion. The Dominion destroys it.
The Borg adapt.
The Borg send a cube at the Dominion and they win.
Borg send a cube at the Dominion. The Dominion destroys it.
The Borg adapt.
The Borg send a cube at the Dominion and they win.
Did you actually watch Voyager's Borg episodes or are you simply regurgitating "Voyager nerfed the Borg"? The Borg have tens of thousands of ships, probably hundreds of thousands, billions to trillions of drones, whole planets devoted entirely for production.
There is no peace faction, no drug to keep supplied, no need to for diplomacy and espionage. There a political system with only one actor. In a full scale war the Borg would have an incredible amount of resources at their disposal.
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