Bolians

[The Wormhole]

There are times when people can take the whole "it's only canon if it's explicitly stated with no room for interpretation" thing a bit too seriously.

I guess when I become producer of the next Trek series I'll have to make sure that when something happens, we see it happen, see a computer screen detailing it, and hear the characters talking about just to make sure it's properly entered into canon.

 

[indolover]

If they are not members, then I cannot see which other arrangement is fitting. Yes, they could just be allies, but why to the extent of Bolians serving in large numbers in Starfleet, or living on Earth. The USA and Germany are both NATO allies, but I doubt a large proportion of officers and enlisted persons in the US armed forces are German.

It could be that Bolarus is a protectorate, and Bolians gain all privileges of Federation society as Federation citizens would. Similar to how Puerto Rico is not an official state of the US, but is under US sovereignty (or the Channel Islands and the UK).

 

[RoJoHen]

If they are not members, then I cannot see which other arrangement is fitting. Yes, they could just be allies, but why to the extent of Bolians serving in large numbers in Starfleet, or living on Earth. The USA and Germany are both NATO allies, but I doubt a large proportion of officers and enlisted persons in the US armed forces are German.

It could be that Bolarus is a protectorate, and Bolians gain all privileges of Federation society as Federation citizens would. Similar to how Puerto Rico is not an official state of the US, but is under US sovereignty (or the Channel Islands and the UK).

Bolians are illegal immigrants taking all of Starfleet's jobs!

 

[Paradon]

I wasn't aware the Federation allows citizens of none member worlds to immigrate to their Union.

 

[RoJoHen]

They don't. That's why they're illegal immigrants. Bolians are nothing but a bunch of fence hoppers!

 

[EmperorTiberius]

Picard was using cheap foreign labor to cut his hair

 

[RoJoHen]

Wife: "What's wrong, honey?"
Husband: "I lost my job today. Starfleet keeps outsourcing everything to Bolarus!"
Wife: "I know! I had to call Replicator Tech Support today, and I swear the person I talked to wasn't even a human! She said her name was Peggy. Peggy my ass!"

 

[T'Girl]

but I doubt a large proportion of officers and enlisted persons in the US armed forces are German

The US military does not allow non-citizens to become officers, under limited circumstances non-citizens can become enlisted personnel.

We can't assume they are a UFP member though.

But are you not also making a assumption? It's never explicitly stated that Bolians aren't members of the Federation. You've brought forward examples of Worf and Nog, and that Ferengiar and the Empire aren't Federation members, but in both of those cases the show made it very clear that they weren't. The Enterprise's bartender's people aren't Federation members, this was made clear. The Ensign Ro's people status was also made clear.

The Enterprise's barber's people received no such "not a member" clarification.

The implication on the show is that Bolians are members of the Federation, the seeming intent of the show is that the Federation family of multi-species includes the Bolian homeworld.

Nothing explicitly states it.

Nor refutes it. So where lies the default position?

 

[Paradon]

The problem is if they allow non-member to join SF, they risk of being infiltrated by spies. They must trust the Bolians a lot to let them join SF, so they are probably part of the UFP.

 

[Sci]

I wasn't aware the Federation allows citizens of none member worlds to immigrate to their Union.

We know for a fact that the Federation allows citizens of non-Members to immigrate to the Federation. Worf was clearly born a Klingon citizen, but immigrated to the Federation as a child.

It could be that Bolarus is a protectorate, and Bolians gain all privileges of Federation society as Federation citizens would. Similar to how Puerto Rico is not an official state of the US, but is under US sovereignty (or the Channel Islands and the UK).

Well, considering that Puerto Rico is basically conquered territory that's denied equal representation in Congress, I certainly hope the Federation doesn't run around engaging in the sorts of imperialist tendencies that led to Puerto Rico becoming a U.S. territory.

If they are not members, then I cannot see which other arrangement is fitting. Yes, they could just be allies, but why to the extent of Bolians serving in large numbers in Starfleet, or living on Earth. The USA and Germany are both NATO allies, but I doubt a large proportion of officers and enlisted persons in the US armed forces are German.

It could be that Bolarus is a protectorate, and Bolians gain all privileges of Federation society as Federation citizens would. Similar to how Puerto Rico is not an official state of the US, but is under US sovereignty (or the Channel Islands and the UK).

Bolians are illegal immigrants taking all of Starfleet's jobs!

?

I'm not sure why someone talking about Puerto Rico would bring to mind the issue of illegal immigration. Puerto Rico is a U.S. territory and its people are United States citizens.

Nothing explicitly states it.

Nor refutes it. So where lies the default position?

Exactly. Given the large number of Bolians in Starfleet, it would seem more probable that Bolarus is a Federation Member.

Also: In "Let He Who Is Without Sin...," a Bolian is a member of the New Essentialists Movement, a group dedicated to "restoring the moral and cultural traditions of the Federation." Seems improbable that a group of, in essence, Federation nationalists would allow a foreigner to join.

 

[Paradon]

Worf was found by humans...some of the few survivors of the Kitamher massicar. They adopted him, so I guess in his case he is different. The Alorians took refuge in Federation territory, but were never mentione if they gain Federation citizenship. Beverly Crusher said they were refugees in "ST: Generation" and that was it.

 

[Sci]

Worf was found by humans...some of the few survivors of the Kitamher massicar. They adopted him, so I guess in his case he is different.

There's no indication that Worf's case, from the standpoint of immigration into the Federation, would be different. (To be fair, there IS the question of why he wasn't returned to the custody of the Klingon government and repatriated to Qo'noS--it's sure as hell not like a U.S. Navy lieutenant participating in a rescue mission at, say, a British overseas territory would get to just adopt a British child he found; he'd have to turn the kid over to the British government, to be placed into custody with whomever the British government chose. The novel The Lost Era: The Art of the Impossible by Keith R.A. DeCandido provides an explanation for why Worf wasn't repatriated to Qo'noS, however.)

Nor is there any rational reason for a free society not to allow immigration, or naturalized citizenship. Especially if this society doesn't have an economy based on scarcity.

The Alorians took refuge in Federation territory, but were never mentione if they gain Federation citizenship.

They were called El-Aurians, not Alorians.

 

[Paradon]

Well, I'm not saying the immigrants can't be naturalized and become Federation citizens, or they don't allow immigrants into the Union. I'm just saying they have to be careful who they let settling roots in their territory. Obviously, there is a large number of Bolians serving in SF, so it is safe to say they are probably part of the Federation, or...

 

[Sci]

Well, I'm not saying the immigrants can't be naturalized and become Federation citizens, or they don't allow immigrants into the Union.

Actually, your exact words were:

I wasn't aware the Federation allows citizens of none member worlds to immigrate to their Union.

To which I responded by noting that it's a canonical fact that the Federation allows the citizens of non-Federation Member worlds to immigrate to the Federation, since we know it happened with Worf.

And there's really no reason to think the Federation wouldn't allow widespread immigration into its borders.

I'm just saying they have to be careful who they let settling roots in their territory.

Why's that?

 

[Paradon]

In ST universe there are a lot of hostile aliens out there that wants to destroy the Federation. The Federation thinks it's the only place in the universe things are happening and all the while pissing off other alien cultures. The previous war with the Klingons and after the Dominion War...they have to be vigilant. It has never been mentioned that they allow immigrants and war refugees to be naturalized and join SF... They can live there. That's clear...but not sure about naturalizing every known aliens that wants to immigrate to UFP. That's what I'm saying!

 

[T'Girl]

it's a canonical fact that the Federation allows the citizens of non-Federation Member worlds to immigrate to the Federation

I'm trying to remember if the show ever said that Worf was a "Federation Citizen?" He was a Starfleet officer and a citizen of the Empire, but beyond that ...

They adopted him, so I guess in his case he is different.

I'm pretty sure that the Rozhenko's never actually adopted Worf. "He took me to his home on Gault and told his wife to raise me as his son." So Worf was the non-citizen fostered child of two citizens. Memory Alpha uses the term foster.

And is fosterage (or adoption) the only way a foreign person can enter the system? Or is there in fact formal immigration going on behind the scenes?

So, Mister Spock might (similar to the case of Worf) go to a planet outside the Federation and discover a little girl, form an attachment to her and simply take her back to Vulcan. Was Saavik a citizen of anywhere really?

 

[Timo]

At times, this discussion seems to forget the slight difference between the cases of Bolians in Starfleet / as UFP President vs. Germans in the US Army / as US President. Namely, Germans are still humans, and indistinguishable from Americans (if there's an archetypal American phenotype, then that's the German phenotype - and never mind statistics or facts or other non-archetypal issues..). They cease to be Germans when they become Americans.

A Bolian who used to be a citizen of Bolarus will still remain Bolian when becoming a citizen of the UFP... Which somewhat confuses the issue. At times, it seems as if we are discussing here whether Africa is part of the United States, on basis of so many Americans being black.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Sci]

it's a canonical fact that the Federation allows the citizens of non-Federation Member worlds to immigrate to the Federation

I'm trying to remember if the show ever said that Worf was a "Federation Citizen?" He was a Starfleet officer and a citizen of the Empire, but beyond that ...

Of course, not all immigrants take citizenship of their new state. My grandfather is a Canadian immigrant; he's never gotten United States citizenship.

But I don't see how Worf couldn't have received Federation citizenship if he served as Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire.

So, Mister Spock might (similar to the case of Worf) go to a planet outside the Federation and discover a little girl, form an attachment to her and simply take her back to Vulcan. Was Saavik a citizen of anywhere really?

I don't see how or why she wouldn't have received Federation citizenship.

 

[Deks]

In ST universe there are a lot of hostile aliens out there that wants to destroy the Federation. The Federation thinks it's the only place in the universe things are happening and all the while pissing off other alien cultures. The previous war with the Klingons and after the Dominion War...they have to be vigilant. It has never been mentioned that they allow immigrants and war refugees to be naturalized and join SF... They can live there. That's clear...but not sure about naturalizing every known aliens that wants to immigrate to UFP. That's what I'm saying!

A lot of aliens were granted asylums for example and were given the option to remain on ships or go where they want.
I would surmise that if they decide to work in the Federation, then the captain of the vessel that granted the asylum would have to be in touch with authorities to relay the situation and then the authorities would probably allow it since majority of 'assessment' was already conducted on the starship where the asylum was given.

There have been 'defectors' for example that proved to be trustworthy.
I would theorize that the Federation might impose some monitoring protocols if they allowed such a person to work in the Federation, but after a time they would be lifted, or would resume in secrecy.
Who knows.

 

[Paradon]

I guess, they do allow refugees to join SF... Look at Ensign Ro for example.