Khan's tube wasn't picked in "Space Seed". His tube activated on its own. As McGivers pointed out, the leader was often the first to be awoken so he could assess the situation and then decide whether to revive the others.
Bob Orci's Comment: The Film Stood on its Own Without...[Spoilers]
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Khan's tube wasn't picked in "Space Seed". His tube activated on its own. As McGivers pointed out, the leader was often the first to be awoken so he could assess the situation and then decide whether to revive the others.
I was not trying to label Khan as a good guy. There is a difference between a bad guy who wants to do horrible things, and a bad guy who wants to achieve his own goals without wanton destruction. To quote Zangief, the original Khan was the bad guy, but this does not mean he is a *bad* guy. When they made him a *bad* guy, they at least put him in circumstances that would warrant such a character change.
Sorry, no. The movie needed Khan. It was such a reversal of fortunes to see him "helping" the Enterprise, and it also gave the film a depth needed to make the film solid. Without Khan, it just becomes another throw-away movie/episode about the respected Star Trek Admiral goes rogue and tries to destroy the Enterprise. Everyone knows that Kirk will outsmart the Admiral, so it's not a big deal. However, Khan added an unpredictability to it, and everyone knows what the stakes were when Khan was involved before. He was a ridiculously great villain in this movie, and to me, BC is now the best Khan. I would have been disappointed had it only been about the Admiral losing his mind.
Yep.
I think the movie could've worked if Harrison wasn't Khan, but it would need a more coherent plot that wouldn't fit into the whole "we shouldn't sacrifice our principles" message the writers were going for. To really get a Khan-less STiD to work, you'd need a Swordfish-like ending, which would really piss off some of the diehard Roddenberry disciples (considering how mixed opinions are about the film, I think that might be an improvement).
And I'm done.
I thought Cumberbatch did a phenomenal job. But it bugs me no end they cast a white, English guy as Khan. Much as I enjoyed the movie, that really knocked points off it for me.
What, you mean they cast a white guy to play a guy with an Indian name instead of a Latino to play a guy with an Indian name? Not really seeing the great big difference here. And in any case, if they had cast an Indian in the role, everyone would have figured it out immediately, which they didn't want. He was a creation of genetic engineering, it doesn't really matter what his race is.
Should have totally been a Spanish looking and sounding Indian.
For me...it was a retcon. Big deal? Trek has retconned its own material and conveintetly forgot all sorts of things once they started producing the TOS Movies.
Don't forget to add in a bad make-up job to make him look orange.
I'm intrigued to see two totally different and incompatible arguments being used in this thread in defense of the filmmakers' choice to use Khan.
If the criticism is that Cumberbatch is a good actor who would have portrayed a non-Khan villain just as effectively, then the defense is that they had to use Khan because he's familiar to non-fans and thus a draw for general audiences.
If the criticism is that Cumberbatch should have portrayed a non-Khan villain because Khan is a Sikh who could have been portrayed by an Indian actor, then the defense is that they couldn't cast an Indian because they were keeping the villain's identity secret and didn't want audiences to catch on.
Anyone else see a problem here?...
If the criticism is that Cumberbatch is a good actor who would have portrayed a non-Khan villain just as effectively, then the defense is that they had to use Khan because he's familiar to non-fans and thus a draw for general audiences.
If the criticism is that Cumberbatch should have portrayed a non-Khan villain because Khan is a Sikh who could have been portrayed by an Indian actor, then the defense is that they couldn't cast an Indian because they were keeping the villain's identity secret and didn't want audiences to catch on.
Anyone else see a problem here?...
I'm intrigued to see two totally different and incompatible arguments being used in this thread in defense of the filmmakers' choice to use Khan.
If the criticism is that Cumberbatch is a good actor who would have portrayed a non-Khan villain just as effectively, then the defense is that they had to use Khan because he's familiar to non-fans and thus a draw for general audiences.
If the criticism is that Cumberbatch should have portrayed a non-Khan villain because Khan is a Sikh who could have been portrayed by an Indian actor, then the defense is that they couldn't cast an Indian because they were keeping the villain's identity secret and didn't want audiences to catch on.
Anyone else see a problem here?...
No, I think the consensus by most people is that it doesn't matter who he played, he did a great job and the color of his skin shouldn't matter.
The criticism is that canon has been changed. The criticism is that this universe can no longer be folded back into the old one.
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Agreed on all counts, and yes, Benedict Cumberbatch is best Khan.
And the apathy towards white-washing a fantastically written ethnic role continues.
I'm sure there are FANTASTIC Indian actors that could have done and equal or better job (we'll never know, they never had the chance to impress us)
And saying that in the 60's they didn't hire an Indian actor is WAY different than saying in 2013 they didn't. I thought we've come farther than this by now. Guess some people don't mind a 60's mentality to casting roles, in which they at least pretended to try, with the clothing, fake tan, and painted portrait. This is the same era that gave us Mickey Rooney in "Breakfast at Tiffany's" and that was acceptable for cryin' out loud.
Whether the role was fantastically-written is one thing, but ethnic? Come on. After you've got past the name and the one casual line:
"From the northern India area, I'd guess. Probably a Sikh."
there simply isn't anything "ethnic" about the character to which anyone can point. Khan could just as easily have been from Mars, for all the story tells about him, or from Nebraska.
There are white British guys in India.
There are plenty of white Sikh in the world. Is it possible that, out of the seven billion, there is a white British Sikh guy named Khan out there?
I'd put the odds slightly better than those of finding pointed-eared dudes on another planet.
There are plenty of white Sikh in the world. Is it possible that, out of the seven billion, there is a white British Sikh guy named Khan out there?
I'd put the odds slightly better than those of finding pointed-eared dudes on another planet.
Well of course the colour of his skin doesn't matter... unless he was meant to be a Sikh, in which case it's just odd. I mean, if he was supposed to be African, would it still be ok for a white guy to portray a black character ?
That said, I thought he was very good in the role. A bit melodramatic, but we're talking about Khan, here.
False analogy.unless he was meant to be a Sikh, in which case it's just odd. I mean, if he was supposed to be African, would it still be ok for a white guy to portray a black character ?
Sikhism is a religion. It has absolutely nothing to do with a person's skin color.
Well of course the colour of his skin doesn't matter... unless he was meant to be a Sikh, in which case it's just odd. I mean, if he was supposed to be African, would it still be ok for a white guy to portray a black character ?
That said, I thought he was very good in the role. A bit melodramatic, but we're talking about Khan, here.
He could have "converted" and changed his name to gain the trust of people there. Not strange.
I agree that he is melodramatic, but he has to be. Every word he says just seems to have ice on it. I was actually afraid of him at one point- something the other Khan never really did. Honestly, the other Khan sometimes acted like an idiot- and of course, in Space Seed, Kirk beats him up with a paper towel roll. Cumberbatch's Khan is calm, intelligent and manipulative until he gets what he wants, and then he just goes berserk. Loved it.