Boardwalk Empire done after 5 seasons...

[the G-man]

Margaret started out as one of the most fascinating characters on the show but they quickly stopped understanding how to write her and she never recovered.

I could live with the land sale to the church because I thought it showed a woman who had ways to stand up to and even outwit Nucky. But after that it was all downhill.

I sometimes think that the original plan was, in fact, to make her something of a thorn in Nucky's side, a woman who was smarter than he originally gave her credit for and someone who might find a way to eventually take over. It would have paralleled the theme of the burgeoning woman's rights movement. However, when the character of Gillian took off, I think a lot of that theme (if in fact that was the plan) went over to that character.

Then, I think the backup plan was something of a prohibition-era Carmella Soprano, but they couldn't find a way to do that without ripping off that earlier show hand over fist.

So we were left with a self-pitying woman who had nothing to but schtup the bodyguard.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I know Margaret wasn't very well liked, but she was one of my favourite characters. So, I was saddened to see her role reduced this season. Hopefully season 5 will include more of her.

 

[Robbiesan]

It looks like Margaret is going to be used as a weapon against Nucky by Arnold Rothstein, but please don't make her his moll. That makes no sense and is unnecessary. In the finale, seeing Rothstein showing Margaret her new apartment, I inwardly groaned. Both characters are interesting enough without doing that.

While I have a fondness for Patricia Arquette as far back as Wildflower, a little seen independent film, her current role on the show is not plausible. Would Nucky really be attracted to her? I could see Billie as a distraction, nothing more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP30f15jk_c

It seems like the writers have just been floundering for awhile.

Yes, it was clear they were going for the protofeminist movement of the time period. All of that seems to be not in keeping with the show's theme. I would think with Nucky's less than legal status, heaping on contraception on top of this, would significantly cause issues that would ruin him politically. It's an Irish Catholic bastion after all.

What they might have done would be to write out both Owen and Margaret by them escaping, but likely it would have caught up with them prior to the voyage back to Ireland. This would have made sense, but would have eliminated Margaret from the 4th season. They might as well have done that.

 

[TheGodBen]

That meant the loss of Owen, a real mistake that happened way too early.

I agree. Owen was a character they could have done more with and it wasn't necessary to kill him off so soon, but they wanted to do something to send Margaret off the deep end and so they offed him. And for what? She is barely part of the show any more. They killed off a character that still had potential stories to tell and got little in return.

I'm okay with Richard's death as it felt like the natural end for the character. I felt the same when when Jimmy died. But, in my opinion, Owen's death was a mistake.

 

[Robbiesan]

The unpopularity of Margaret became a self-fulfilling prophecy. You put her in the very roles where she's directly opposing the protagonist, then naturally the fans are going to be first miffed, then irritated, then annoyed, then angry, etc. The writers doomed her instead of writing her as a normal woman dealing with a criminal husband.

This is going to be a frequent issue in any anti-hero serialized show. You end up with fans writing really awful things about the women who play that kind of supporting cast role. As such, it's poor writing.

I think most people cheered her rise. Her influence led to a humanity in Nucky.

Anti-heros are not all evil, but people who make bad choices because of what's happened, trying to survive, lacking the education and ability to do other things, then justifying their immoral choices, and continuing to make them.

Nucky having a human side balanced him. Letting him continue to do things like kill his practically adopted son, dehumanizes him. Where do you go from there and that kind of despicable act? It's Tony Soprano suffocating Christopher.

When you do that as a writer, then the only way out is to shift the attention on the whining wife, and that's pathetic. It's just like making Skylar out to be whiny in Breaking Bad. Then we can cheer Walt's rise selling meth (which then causes innumerable tragedies for countless people).

There was no balance. If you allow the supporting characters to act as the only outlet for the anti-hero to give them some semblance of humanity, then it makes sense instead of being a caricature.

The extra money, the women on the side, the gambling, the freedom to have autonomy are never enough. What we're all seeking is love and friendship. That's why an antihero who tries everything else is so doomed and lonely. You can't buy those things.

Note: if you liked Owen, you'll probably like Peaky Blinders:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2442560/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF9t88hbL9k

 

[Tom]

Ending after 5 seasons... something Showtime needs to learn.

Oddly, where this did not work is when Showtime let Stargate go after 5 seasons, then Syfy got it and made it a hit.

 

[Warped9]

I liked Margaret and was bummed out when she seemed to disappear and they didn't take her in a direction I thought she might go. I don't find Billie at all interesting.

 

[Robbiesan]

I liked Margaret and was bummed out when she seemed to disappear and they didn't take her in a direction I thought she might go. I don't find Billie at all interesting.

There wasn't anything bad about Billie's performance (Meg Steedle). It was a believable look into the early film industry.

It's just that she's not very different than Nucky's earlier squeeze Lucy Danzinger (Paz de la Huerta). Her most interesting portrayals were post-Nucky and dealing with pregnancy. Ms. Huerta's toughest aspects were to portray a golddigger without the fans percieving her to be that way personally. That didn't work, and fans disliked her immensely.

The idea with Lucy was showing that she couldn't compete with a lady who could offer Nucky normalcy and a family life. Billie might have done that too, but would it have been anything more than mercenary? That would have been at odds with her aspirations.

Mainly I think Billie was brought around to demonstrate (by hitting us over the head with it) that "everything he touches get ruined"...or in this case burned to a cinder.

 

[lurok]

I'm okay with Richard's death as it felt like the natural end for the character. I felt the same when when Jimmy died. But, in my opinion, Owen's death was a mistake.

Completely agree. The actor was quite charismatic too. Was in the recent BBC spy drama, Legacy.

 

[Capt. Vulcan]

Eh. While I enjoy the show I thought it really petered out towards the end of last season. All I could say after the season was over was "really?" and I didn't have much interest in anything but the mob wars in Chicago.

 

[sidious618]

I thought the season four finale was fantastic and I liked that it went in an unusual route, especially with Jeffrey Wright's character.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I liked Margaret and was bummed out when she seemed to disappear and they didn't take her in a direction I thought she might go. I don't find Billie at all interesting.

Same here. I thought it was going in the direction of where there would be something brewing between her and Nucky after they separated. But then we got this season, and nothing. Was disappointed with that. I guess they felt Margaret couldn't openly defy him. She knows things that he wouldn't want to get out.

 

[Gov Kodos]

They should have gotten rid of Jillian last year. She was a third wheel to the entire season. The overdose that Gyp gave her was where her arc should have ended since she had so little connection to anything this whole year. Dr Narcisse was defanged too early and easily, but he was played fabulously the whole way by Jeffrey Wright. I hope he's back next year. Chalky deserves the showdown with him. I am OK with them finishing the series up. The finale felt like we were half way through the finale. I liked what they did, but it stops to abruptly to be completely satisfying.Everyone is set up for the next step so I hope year 5 goes well. I will miss this show.

I liked Margaret and was bummed out when she seemed to disappear and they didn't take her in a direction I thought she might go. I don't find Billie at all interesting.

Same here. I thought it was going in the direction of where there would be something brewing between her and Nucky after they separated. But then we got this season, and nothing. Was disappointed with that. I guess they felt Margaret couldn't openly defy him. She knows things that he wouldn't want to get out.

Same here, maybe Kelly MacDonald wanted time with the new child, so Jillian was kept on where she might not have been had MacDonald been able to come back? I hope she'll have a strong presence next year.

 

[Robbiesan]

Gretchen Mol is one of those fearless actors who will do practically anything on screen...any maybe should have a better agent to dissuade her from some of those decisions. She did a superior job as Betty Page, for example, a role that many actresses would have enormous difficulty with.

When Kelly MacDonald signed, she was one of the best paid entertainers in the business (believe it or not).
http://en.mediamass.net/people/kelly-macdonald/highest-paid.html

It's possible and probable that she signed a five year contract, so they had to keep her around even if they didn't want to. I can recall reading about that, and being surprised because the biggest international film that she'd done was No Country for Old Men, though she'd been in several internationally known films as well as many UK productions (like Skellig and State of Play). Now after Brave and Boardwalk Empire, she's bound to have more opportunities. I have no idea why she elected to do The Decoy Bride.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-iQldPiH64[/yt]

 

[sidious618]

Kelly McDonald wasn't in it much this season due to pregnancy, IIRC. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with her and Rothstein.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Same here, maybe Kelly MacDonald wanted time with the new child, so Jillian was kept on where she might not have been had MacDonald been able to come back? I hope she'll have a strong presence next year.

Oh, I forgot about her pregancy. Yeah, I guess that would make a difference. But it really does kill any momentum that had started during Season 3 with the seperation.

Definitely agree that Jillian needed to go. That's actually been my peeve with the character. She had a huge story-arc last year, and we're supposed to believe that she survived the aftermath. That makes her out to be a cartoony character that loses her value and any impact she may have had by staying on too long. I mentioned it before in the other thread, but she's a bit like a character in a bad miniseries I've seen (World Without End), where one of the main villains keeps on plotting at every turn, where it quickly becomes evident that no matter what happens, she'll always bounce back and get on to plotting her next trick, with the good guys unable to catch a break. It ceases to be fun and becomes tedious, because you always know she'll win out unless there's an apocalypse. Basically, you need a little balance.

 

[Harvey]

It's possible and probable that she signed a five year contract, so they had to keep her around even if they didn't want to.

That's not how television contracts work. Producers usually have options at the end of each year (or, in network television, which has longer seasons, at the end of each episodic production cycle -- say, 13 episodes) to renew or terminate an actor's contract for the next year/production cycle.

So, when an actor signs a five year contract, that doesn't mean the producers have to keep them around for five years. Any time the actor's option comes up, the producers are within their rights to drop them without penalty.

 

[Robbiesan]

That's not how television contracts work. Producers usually have options at the end of each year (or, in network television, which has longer seasons, at the end of each episodic production cycle -- say, 13 episodes) to renew or terminate an actor's contract for the next year/production cycle.

So, when an actor signs a five year contract, that doesn't mean the producers have to keep them around for five years. Any time the actor's option comes up, the producers are within their rights to drop them without penalty.

'Sounds like you work in the industry. I assumed that she had some iron clad contract re the link I mentioned earlier or at least a golden parachute of some kind which precluded letting her go.

They might as well let her go to do other things (like Brave) if they're not going to use her. She's stuck in a stock broker's office, and only mildly had some impact and only on one character the whole season. That's a waste, and an expensive one.

 

[Harvey]

I study the media industry on the academic side, but I don't (at the moment) work in it.

 

[the G-man]

There wasn't anything bad about Billie's performance (Meg Steedle). It was a believable look into the early film industry.

It's just that she's not very different than Nucky's earlier squeeze Lucy Danzinger (Paz de la Huerta).

I found Lucy incredibly annoying, but Billie quite likeable. Lucy did seem like an amoral golddigger, whereas Billie seemed like a fairly decent young woman with dreams who happened to fall for the wrong man.