Blu-Ray: F*** You

[Amaris]

I wonder if anyone out there realizes the irony of sticking an anti-piracy trailer after a bunch of unskippable trailers. Whose bright idea was it to tell the consumer not to download movies after providing an example of one of the best reasons to justify downloading movies in the first place?

Would you agree that someone is justified in stealing merchandise from a store if they find out they have to stand in line to pay for it?

It was not my intention to participate in the debate about the morality of downloading movies (i.e. whether or not it is the equivalent of stealing merchandise). The only point I was trying to make was that I can understand how forcing people to deal with unnecessary inconveniences when they pay for the product would compel them to choose that alternate way to get it since downloading would be both free AND cut out the inconvenience thrust upon them by the manufacturer.

Also, I think people can accept the fact that waiting in line is a necessary part of shopping. On the other hand, unskippable trailers being included on a DVD are not a given. Their addition to a DVD is a choice made by only some DVD manufacturers, as evidenced by the fact that not all DVDs include them. I think your example would be more apt if line-ups were something that only certain stores forced people to deal with, rather than an inevitable occurrence wherever DVDs are sold.

Even so, waiting in line, or having to skip through trailers on a DVD or Blu-ray does not mitigate stealing the movie. It all comes back to that point. That part of the debate can't be stepped over since it's inherent to the issue. I mean, sure it's more convenient to pirate movies off the internet, but it's still theft, and neither DVD trailers or Blu-ray trailers or any such thing can legitimize such activity.

My intention isn't to make you do anything. It's obvious you do whatever you want regardless of whether it's legal, ethical or not.

On the contrary, ethics are very important to me. Indeed, one of the problems with law is the way it deprecates ethics in favour of self-interest, supplanting 'because it's the right thing to do' with '... or else!' By doing so it becomes impossible to act ethically; or rather, to be seen to act ethically, as the assumption is that one is acting in one's own interests. It's not merely a case of flattering one's ego; as society is fashioned by the cumulative interactions of individuals, law impedes the creation of social harmony through reciprocity of the selfless behaviour which characterises any real human relationship, instead encouraging individuals to use one another like tools: what can you do for me? If I'm obligated to embrace you as a brother, what meaning does that gesture actually have?

Riiiight.

 

[Rii]

Even so, waiting in line, or having to skip through trailers on a DVD or Blu-ray does not mitigate stealing the movie.

Curiously, you seem to be the only one under the impression that anyone thinks it does. Obviously the moral quality of the act is the same regardless of how much shit is attached to the product.

It is very simple, and so pragmatic that even a corporate executive can understand it: when the consumer can easily choose to consume your product without paying for it, it's not a good idea to piss them off. It's like sticking your head in the lion's mouth. Neither law nor ethics need enter into it; and indeed content producers have no use for either except insofar as it serves their interests.

 

[doubleohfive]

CRYYYYYYYYY HAVOC!!!! AND LET SLIP THE UNSKIPPABLE TRAILERS OF WAAAAAAAR!!!!!

All of you guys complaining about this are big, fat whiny babies. GROW UP ALREADY.

 

[Trek4Ever]

A while back, I saw a short video on cnet.com that claimed pressing STOP-STOP-PLAY on your remote would by-pass all of the "unskippable" stuff. I haven't tried it yet, but might be worth giving a go? Post your results if you try it.

As for trailers themselves, I do love seeing them at the theatre (although I seldom go anymore), but hate them on DVD.

This actually works. And often it will skip the title menu and play the movie right away. Ironically I learned this trick from reading a Spider-Man comic!

 

[doubleohfive]

Also:

 

[Servo]

...it's all just hot air.

That's funny, cause I was thinking the same thing whilst reading your posts.

Anarcho-socialist? Please.

You're pretty much just a thief. Don't try and glamourise it by pretending to be some kind of revolutionary anarchist thinker, who is sticking it to "The Man".

 

[Rii]

...it's all just hot air.

That's funny, cause I was thinking the same thing whilst reading your posts.

Anarcho-socialist? Please.

You're pretty much just a thief. Don't try and glamourise it by pretending to be some kind of revolutionary anarchist thinker, who is sticking it to "The Man".

You demonstrate several misapprehensions in this post. If the exercise didn't seem entirely futile I'd attempt to clarify them, but suffice to say they say rather more about you than me.

In any case, don't you have some virtual prostitutes to go and ethically beat up or something? Shove off.

 

[Servo]

You demonstrate several misapprehensions in this post. If the exercise didn't seem entirely futile I'd attempt to clarify them, but suffice to say they say rather more about you than me.

In other words, you can't clarify them, so you're hiding behind some piss-poor attempt at making yourself look superior. You go, Citizen Smith. Fight the power!

BTW, however you try and justify it, you're still a thief. Just FYI, Mr. Anarcho-Socialist.

In any case, don't you have some virtual prostitutes to go and ethically beat up or something? Shove off.

Nah, I already did that today. Kudos to you, though, for clinging to an argument you already lost in another forum.

I suppose at least we should be thankful you're not telling Mods to "fuck off". Yet.

 

[Capt. Vulcan]

On the topic of pirated movies being better (Since the original topic is kind of retarded given dvd's had the same problem) yeah there are benefits however being simpler isn't one of them. For one thing, keeping up with codecs is a pain in the balls. It really is. Not even just keeping up, just finding the codec what will work with whatever it is you're trying to use to stream the movie to your tv. Ever try to run HD media on an xbox? Not a fun task. On top of that just getting the files and the codec doesn't guarantee it'll run well for you based on the system/hardware you have. Then if the subtitles are not hardcoded or included with your movie, you'll have to dig for the captions that specifically go with the release or risk having mistimed subtitles. For an xbox you can just throw the idea of non-hardcoded subtitles out the window. Right now I'm using a set top media player and it was a huge pain in the ass to try convert what blu-rays I had in to files that would play the way I wanted them to on the media player. Even the scene encoded versions of the movies I tried still had issues with audio synching or incompatibility with the media player or system I was trying to play it on.

Yeah unskippable trailers suck, but let's not pretend pirated movies are some kind of amazing paradise. Also I've been nagged way more times for upgrades on my video software than I have for my blu-ray player so throw that out the window too.

 

[Rii]

the original topic is kind of retarded given dvd's had the same problem)

Yeah, I'm just totally making it up that I have never, ever encountered a DVD featuring trailers before the main menu. And similarly I'm making it up that some of the Blu-Rays I've encountered have unskippable trailers before the main menu. Or maybe it's the people who say they've never encountered such a thing who're lying. Or maybe, just maybe, practices evidently vary by publisher and region and things which are familiar and unobjectionable to some are seen differently by others. Y'know, like capped internet, which apparently represents the end of civilization for most Americans.

yeah there are benefits however being simpler isn't one of them. For one thing, keeping up with codecs is a pain in the balls. It really is. Not even just keeping up, just finding the codec what will work with whatever it is you're trying to use to stream the movie to your tv. Ever try to run HD media on an xbox? Not a fun task. On top of that just getting the files and the codec doesn't guarantee it'll run well for you based on the system/hardware you have. Then if the subtitles are not hardcoded or included with your movie, you'll have to dig for the captions that specifically go with the release or risk having mistimed subtitles. For an xbox you can just throw the idea of non-hardcoded subtitles out the window.

What sort of shit are you downloading here? Matroska?

EDIT: Actually, Quicktime is the bane of civilisation. Fortunately there's nothing in the format except trailers which turn up on Youtube 30 minutes later anyway.

Agreed on the subtitles thing; fortunately I have a cool utility here which is able to hardcode subs.

Right now I'm using a set top media player and it was a huge pain in the ass to try convert what blu-rays I had in to files that would play the way I wanted them to

Don't look now, but I'm pretty sure you just broke the (almighty) law. Pirate! Thief! Go sit in the corner!

Yeah unskippable trailers suck, but let's not pretend pirated movies are some kind of amazing paradise.

It's the software thing which pisses me off most. I can play every audio and video file on this PC with VLC except for Blu-Rays, for which I have to use PowerDVD which is not only specialised, bloated, commercial software, but categorially inferior software. Besides fucking up my desktop every time I run it, it won't do half the shit that VLC does; because allowing consumers to do what they want with the product they've purchased is not in the interests of the corporations from which PowerDVD has obtained its Blu-Ray license.

 

[Rii]

My intention isn't to make you do anything. It's obvious you do whatever you want regardless of whether it's legal, ethical or not.

On the contrary, ethics are very important to me. Indeed, one of the problems with law is the way it deprecates ethics in favour of self-interest, supplanting 'because it's the right thing to do' with '... or else!' By doing so it becomes impossible to act ethically; or rather, to be seen to act ethically, as the assumption is that one is acting in one's own interests. It's not merely a case of flattering one's ego; as society is fashioned by the cumulative interactions of individuals, law impedes the creation of social harmony through reciprocity of the selfless behaviour which characterises any real human relationship, instead encouraging individuals to use one another like tools: what can you do for me? If I'm obligated to embrace you as a brother, what meaning does that gesture actually have?

Riiiight.

Perhaps you'll find it more palatable coming from Einstein:

the personality that finally emerges is largely formed by the environment in which a man happens to find himself during his development, by the structure of the society in which he grows up, by the tradition of that society, and by its appraisal of particular types of behavior. The abstract concept "society" means to the individual human being the sum total of his direct and indirect relations to his contemporaries and to all the people of earlier generations. The individual is able to think, feel, strive, and work by himself; but he depends so much upon society—in his physical, intellectual, and emotional existence—that it is impossible to think of him, or to understand him, outside the framework of society. It is "society" which provides man with food, clothing, a home, the tools of work, language, the forms of thought, and most of the content of thought

[....]

I have now reached the point where I may indicate briefly what to me constitutes the essence of the crisis of our time. It concerns the relationship of the individual to society. The individual has become more conscious than ever of his dependence upon society. But he does not experience this dependence as a positive asset, as an organic tie, as a protective force, but rather as a threat to his natural rights, or even to his economic existence. Moreover, his position in [capitalist] society is such that the egotistical drives of his make-up are constantly being accentuated, while his social drives, which are by nature weaker, progressively deteriorate. All human beings, whatever their position in society, are suffering from this process of deterioration. Unknowingly prisoners of their own egotism, they feel insecure, lonely, and deprived of the naive, simple, and unsophisticated enjoyment of life. Man can find meaning in life, short and perilous as it is, only through devoting himself to society.

The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labor—not by force, but on the whole in faithful compliance with legally established rules.

Granted, Einstein here is more focussed on capitalism whereas I'm focused on law, but it maps well enough. As Buffy once said of Spike, to do good requires that one be able to do evil. To subject the individual to the tyranny of law is to cripple his incentive to do evil, and thereby his ability to do good. Certainly no external observer can know whether he behaves the way he does because he believes it is right to do so, or merely because he fears punishment if he behaves otherwise. Within sight of the law, no human bond can be forged upon this basis. The question of whether to steal or not to steal becomes entirely a matter of self-interest: risk vs. reward. Law seeks to supplant our unique inheritence as sentient beings with the same simple pain/pleasure response systems used to train hamsters.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Re: Blu-Ray: Fuck You

I guess I'm lucky. Whenever I've run into a DVD with unskippable trailers, the "menu" button still works. And, naturally, half the ones with skippable trailers disable the "menu" button.

Same here.

 

[Amaris]

On the contrary, ethics are very important to me. Indeed, one of the problems with law is the way it deprecates ethics in favour of self-interest, supplanting 'because it's the right thing to do' with '... or else!' By doing so it becomes impossible to act ethically; or rather, to be seen to act ethically, as the assumption is that one is acting in one's own interests. It's not merely a case of flattering one's ego; as society is fashioned by the cumulative interactions of individuals, law impedes the creation of social harmony through reciprocity of the selfless behaviour which characterises any real human relationship, instead encouraging individuals to use one another like tools: what can you do for me? If I'm obligated to embrace you as a brother, what meaning does that gesture actually have?

Riiiight.

Perhaps you'll find it more palatable coming from Einstein:

the personality that finally emerges is largely formed by the environment in which a man happens to find himself during his development, by the structure of the society in which he grows up, by the tradition of that society, and by its appraisal of particular types of behavior. The abstract concept "society" means to the individual human being the sum total of his direct and indirect relations to his contemporaries and to all the people of earlier generations. The individual is able to think, feel, strive, and work by himself; but he depends so much upon society—in his physical, intellectual, and emotional existence—that it is impossible to think of him, or to understand him, outside the framework of society. It is "society" which provides man with food, clothing, a home, the tools of work, language, the forms of thought, and most of the content of thought

[....]

I have now reached the point where I may indicate briefly what to me constitutes the essence of the crisis of our time. It concerns the relationship of the individual to society. The individual has become more conscious than ever of his dependence upon society. But he does not experience this dependence as a positive asset, as an organic tie, as a protective force, but rather as a threat to his natural rights, or even to his economic existence. Moreover, his position in [capitalist] society is such that the egotistical drives of his make-up are constantly being accentuated, while his social drives, which are by nature weaker, progressively deteriorate. All human beings, whatever their position in society, are suffering from this process of deterioration. Unknowingly prisoners of their own egotism, they feel insecure, lonely, and deprived of the naive, simple, and unsophisticated enjoyment of life. Man can find meaning in life, short and perilous as it is, only through devoting himself to society.

The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labor—not by force, but on the whole in faithful compliance with legally established rules.

Granted, Einstein here is more focussed on capitalism whereas I'm focused on law, but it maps well enough. As Buffy once said of Spike, to do good requires that one be able to do evil. To subject the individual to the tyranny of law is to cripple his incentive to do evil, and thereby his ability to do good. Certainly no external observer can know whether he behaves the way he does because he believes it is right to do so, or merely because he fears punishment if he behaves otherwise. Within sight of the law, no human bond can be forged upon this basis. The question of whether to steal or not to steal becomes entirely a matter of self-interest: risk vs. reward. Law seeks to supplant our unique inheritence as sentient beings with the same simple pain/pleasure response systems used to train hamsters.

I'm afraid you have it all wrong. See, Einstein is an illusion, a social construct. The way he is portrayed never really existed. There is no Einstein, only the idea of what Einstein could be, and that is a malleable illusion for oneself to cling to, so I cannot accept your illusions as my own.

 

[Rii]

You're thinking of Heisenberg.

 

[Amaris]

You're thinking of Heisenberg.

Did he steal movies, too?

 

[Rii]

You're thinking of Heisenberg.

Did he steal movies, too?

Alas, history does not relate; but he was once pulled over for speeding: the attending officer asked him if he knew how fast he was going and he replied "no, but I know exactly where I am."

 

[Amaris]

You're thinking of Heisenberg.

Did he steal movies, too?

Alas, history does not relate; but he was once pulled over for speeding: the attending officer asked him if he knew how fast he was going and he replied "no, but I know exactly where I am."

Meh, those laws are illusions, too. It must be nice to live in a world where the laws governing bodies create are nothing more than constructs you don't have to follow. I mean, personally, In your place I guess I would just say I'm too cheap to buy movies, don't care about the people who produce them, so I steal them off the internet because all I care about is myself, even though I expect the laws to protect me when I need them. Although I see why you wouldn't, I mean, that's much longer than just calling them illusions that don't really exist. Much easier. Like stealing movies.

 

[Rii]

Meh, those laws are illusions, too.

I can't tell if you missed that perfectly good physics joke there or are just being ornery.

It must be nice to live in a world where the laws governing bodies create are nothing more than constructs you don't have to follow.

Indeed; colloquially it goes by the name 'reality'. Personally, I'd be frightened to live in a world where law actually played a significant role in shaping folks' behaviour. I'd rather a man not wish to kill me in the first place than refrain from doing so because a law exists against murder, if only because I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him when he decides that he can probably get away with it after all.

I mean, personally, In your place I guess I would just say I'm too cheap to buy movies.

Except for the part where I buy lots of movies. I'm waiting on the delivery of three DVDs and two Blu-Rays right now.

You're making the same basic mistake as Servo here; but you're not a wanker so I'll do you the courtesy of explaining it. Although my political beliefs necessarily encompass the nature of property (intellectual and otherwise) and have implications for the ethics of piracy, they do not arise from an attempt to justify my engaging in that behaviour. They're far more wide ranging and grounded in a variety of issues. Frankly, I'm surprised that wasn't evident to you from my tenure in TNZ. You really think this is something I came up with so I could download films off the internet? I'd be offended if I weren't simply more embarrassed for you at having arrived at the idea.

I merely noted that your chosen method of attack was unlikely to be effective against a man of my persuasion, in the same way that it is fruitless to discuss the finer points of evolutionary psychology with a bible literalist. There is a fundamental stumbling block: in this case that private property is not the sacred cow for me that it is for you. I merely attempted to save us some time. I've engaged in the subsequent discussion regarding laws more generally because I find it interesting; nothing more. I am not defending myself, least of all to you.

don't care about the people who produce them, so I steal them off the internet because all I care about is myself

This is, of course, utter nonsense.

 

[Amaris]

Meh, those laws are illusions, too.

I can't tell if you missed that perfectly good physics joke there or are just being ornery.

It must be nice to live in a world where the laws governing bodies create are nothing more than constructs you don't have to follow.

Indeed; colloquially it goes by the name 'reality'. Personally, I'd be frightened to live in a world where law actually played a significant role in shaping folks' behaviour. I'd rather a man not wish to kill me in the first place than refrain from doing so because a law exists against murder.

I mean, personally, In your place I guess I would just say I'm too cheap to buy movies.

Except for the part where I buy lots of movies. I'm waiting on the delivery of three DVDs and two Blu-Rays right now.

You're making the same basic mistake as Servo here; but you're not a wanker so I'll do you the courtesy of explaining it. Although my political beliefs necessarily encompass the nature of intellectual property and have implications for the ethics of piracy, they do not arise from an attempt to justify my engaging in that behaviour. They're far more wide ranging and grounded in a variety of issues. Frankly, I'm surprised that wasn't evident to you from my tenure in TNZ. You really think this is something I came up with so I could download films off the internet? I'd be offended if I weren't simply more embarrassed for you at having arrived at the idea.

I merely noted that your chosen method of attack was unlikely to be effective against a man of my persuasion, in the same way that it is fruitless to discuss the finer points of evolutionary psychology with a bible literalist. There is a fundamental stumbling block: in this case that private property is not the sacred cow for me that it is for you. I merely attempted to save us some time. I've engaged in the subsequent discussion regarding laws more generally because I find it interesting; nothing more. I am not defending myself, least of all to you.

don't care about the people who produce them, so I steal them off the internet because all I care about is myself

This is, of course, utter nonsense.

Whatever gets you through the day.

 

[Dream]

A while back, I saw a short video on cnet.com that claimed pressing STOP-STOP-PLAY on your remote would by-pass all of the "unskippable" stuff. I haven't tried it yet, but might be worth giving a go? Post your results if you try it.

As for trailers themselves, I do love seeing them at the theatre (although I seldom go anymore), but hate them on DVD.

That doesn't work. I tried it with my Dexter season 4 set, but the stop/fastforward/menu refuses to function. Stupid Showtime!