Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's wedding

[Mike Farley]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

Shatner's a complicated man, and nobody understands him but his woman.

Seriously, these men are in their 70's and their beef with each other is 40 years old. It's time to just let go. They don't have to become friends. but can't they just do what most of the rest of do with people we don't like and ignore each other?

 

[3D Master]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

Why is everyone still going on on how Takei can't let it go? The dude invited the Shat to his wedding, if that isn't letting go, I don't know what is.

That the Shat either has managers who don't know the importance of a wedding invitation, or the Shat's so much a prick to make a deal about not being publicly, graciously, with Takei on his knees from the top of the statue of liberty personally invited to his wedding, is not Takei's problem.

 

[RandyS]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

The two of them go on and on, and meanwhile spectators will have turned around to look at the new cast in the new movie. Maybe they will let it drop then.

Actually, I think it's BECAUSE of the new cast in the new movie that this is going on at all. Shatner and Takei are both afraid of being upstaged by their replacements, and are just seeking some publicity. If they hate each other so much, fine, but why make their feud public? It's not like any of us can do anything about it.

 

[Supervisor 194]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

Or, Shatner rightly slapped Takei down. 'Bout time, too.

 

[3D Master]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

:sighs:

Which part of my above post didn't you get? Which part of the posts above that about how Shatner WAS invited, and he had to make a stink anyway, didn't you get?

In fact, even if Shatner was NOT invited, it would be SHATNER that made it public, and WRONGLY so, NOT Takei. Takei would simply not have invited him, big ffing deal. Do you invite YOUR co-workers to your weddings? Hell, do you invite your EX co-workers to your weddings?

If Takei had gone on the air somewhere and publicly gone: "Shatner, you are not invitied to my wedding you prick!" Shatner may have had a point.

However, not only did Takei not do that, he didn't even not invite Shatner, because he DID invite Shatner.

Ffing shit, how difficult is it to read.

 

[Saxman1]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

Doohan said in his autobiography that once Shatner directed TOS cast in ST V, Final Frontier, he understood a lot of where he was coming from. He always wanted to be the director and once he was, he treated the cast well. I think he said, "The man's not half-bad once you REALLY get to know him."

The only experience I had with the Shat and Nimoy was at a convention back in 1992: my future wife and I gave them the Vulcan salute and they both smiled, laughed and gave it back. We didn't want to push it and left them alone.

Another friend and his mom unexpectedly had dinner with Nichelle Nichols at another con around the same time and said she was delightful.

 

[Supervisor 194]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

3DMaster, all you have is Takei's word that he invited Shatner--and that doesn't count for much as far as I'm concerned.

 

[WRStone]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

I can't know the truth about the wedding issue, but I can say that Shatner almost hit the real nail on the head a few years ago. The basic problem is this:

In TOS, William Shatner was originally the star of the show. Period.

Because of the popularity of the Spock character, Leonard Nimoy was elevated from the status of a supporting role to near co-star. This caused friction during the production of the series that was apparently only resolved after the series ended. Since then, they've become friends to the point where each has described the other as a brother.

Because of the obvious chemistry DeForest Kelley became more important as the "triumvirate" of Kirk/Spock/McCoy grew. He was originally an important recurring character who became a supporting one.

Everyone else simply played recurring characters. With the exception of Scotty, there was nothing particularly relevant about any of them. They can -- and were -- replaced with other actors manning the same stations and performing the exact same functions.

Unfortunately, Gene Roddenberry had a serious problem telling the truth about this. He particularly had a problem with it when it came to his various mistresses, but it applied to some extent to everyone. From the various books published over the years, it became clear that the way he operated with his actors was this:

Promise them the moon in order to get them on the cheap.

That is, he'd tell Nichelle Nichols, "We'll use you in a bunch of scripts down the road, so just bear with me for now and work cheap." But all the while, he'd never intended to use her in any major way and was mostly keeping her around for sex.

He said similar things to Takei and particularly to Walter Koenig who was promised that Chekov would practically become a son to Kirk.

Again, Roddenberry never had any intention of using the recurring characters this way. Scotty fared better than the others because he was outstandingly colorful, but even he could have been replaced at any time and it's unlikely anyone would have particularly noticed or cared.

The leads were Shatner and Nimoy with lesser emphasis on Kelley. Period. Anything he ever said to the others was just a lie. Period.

Now, in a normal TV show, the recurring characters would accept their dramatic roles, take the paycheck, and look forward to bigger and better things when the series folded. That didn't happen with Star Trek.

What happened with Star Trek was a period of relative obscurity for everyone involved until the Phenomenon was born in the early 1970s. Then everyone involved -- particularly the recurring actors -- discovered that there was a lot of cash to be made by appearing at conventions.

The conventions were an extraordinary ego stroke for them. Desperate for anything Star Trek-related, fans would laugh hysterically at anecdotes; breathlessly hang on an actor's every word; and gush with praise when meeting the actor.

For the better part of thirty years, now, actors whose major lines included, "Hailing frequencies open, Sir," and "Warp four, Captain," have been told that they made the show. They've been repeatedly gushed at and told the show could never have been what it was without them. Takei has been told he could be the lead in his own Captain Sulu series since the late 1970s.

Now, it's not to denigrate the talent of any of these individuals. In fact, they're all talented and given the right vehicle could be stars of their own shows.

But they weren't the stars of Star Trek and never were. Shatner and Nimoy were the stars (with Kelley an important supporting actor).

Period.

But after 30 years of listening to the hype of awe-struck fans, I think the other actors came to believe that they really contributed materially to the show. And they always remembered that Roddenberry told them he'd do more for them and never did. They also remember Nimoy and Shatner occasionally having problems when Nimoy's status was elevated.

In that circumstance, who logically might one blame for the situation?

Shatner, of course. After all, he was the guy fighting for more time with Nimoy. The two of them were busy making Roddenberry's life difficult by insisting that each of them get more screen time. And for whatever reason, Nimoy is perceived as being more personable, so from their perspective, he clearly couldn't be partly at fault for the bickering.

So now, forty years and a lot of fan BS later, the recurring actors who have delusions of thwarted stardom look to Shatner as the problem.

But the fact is, there was never any chance for stardom on Star Trek. Shatner was always the lead, no matter what Roddenberry or the fans said.

Basically, their dislike of Shatner is misplaced. Maybe he wasn't the easiest guy to get along with. Maybe Star Trek wasn't his best work after his father died and after his divorce (the real reason his performances suffered after the first season, IMHO). Maybe he and Nimoy sometimes stomped around the set looking petty while they vied to be top dog.

But what Shatner did back then had absolutely no impact on their roles. They were hired to play recurring characters with few lines and no individual stories, and that's what they did. Nothing Shatner did would have suddenly changed the show to the ensemble piece that Roddenberry later claimed it was.

Bottom line: Roddenberry was a liar, Shatner was a little hard to deal with, the fans were nuts, and none of it mattered. They played the roles Roddenberry intended, and the only stars were Shatner and Nimoy.

That's not Shatner's fault.

I doubt that any of the recurring actors will ever get this, with the possible exception of Koenig. Various books and interviews through the years have indicated that Koenig understood perfectly that he had a minor character who could be dumped at any time, and that the fan adoration would have happened to anyone cast in the role. In fact, he said exactly that on The Tomorrow Show with Tom Snyder in 1976.

The rest of them just need someone to blame for the fact that they never became stars on Star Trek because for some reason they could never accept that they would never be stars on that show.

I'm somewhat content at this point, having been a Star Trek fan for most of my 43 years on the planet, of advising the whole batch of them to get a life.

Dakota Smith

 

[3D Master]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

3DMaster, all you have is Takei's word that he invited Shatner--and that doesn't count for much as far as I'm concerned.

Which doesn't matter one bit. Even if Takei indeed didn't invite him, Shatner's inflated ego has him publicly (not Takei, Shatner) decrying he isn't invited to a wedding and says because of that Takei is a man with psychological problems.

Seriously, Takei OBVIOUSLY did not publicly single out Shatner as not being invited. Are you psychologically challenged if you don't invite your ex-coworkers to your wedding? Hell, would you even invite your PRESENT co-workers to your wedding, let alone someone you haven't worked with in and official capacity in over a decade?

If one of your coworkers not even your ex-coworkers, but one of your co-workers doesn't invite you to his/her wedding, are you going to stand in the middle the workplace and yell: "You didn't invite me to your wedding! You should get over working with me! You've got serious psychological problems for not inviting me to your wedding! Waaah!"

snip

That's nice. All of which not mattering one bit when it comes to Shatner crying publicly about not being invited to one of his ex-coworkers weddings, or Takei not inviting him (whether he actually did or did not invite him). Seriously.

 

[siskokid888]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

^^Good analysis, and right on target. I often felt alot of the vitriol aimed at Shatner by the "gang of four" was a result of the reasons you stated and simple jealousy. Not that Shatner isn't a tool, but that's neither here or there. If Kirk was played by anyone else, that person would have been the target and source of these imagined slights. And by the way, Nimoy has pulled alot of the same stuff Shatner has over the years - bitching about screen time, counting lines, demanding this or that, holding the movie productions hostage (his refusal to appear in "Generations" is a good example), even wrote a book that blasted Trek fans, yet he seems to escape the stigma that Shatner has put on him. I always wonder why that was.

 

[3D Master]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

Which still has nothing to do with Shatner crying he didn't get invited to his ex-coworker's wedding (true or not), and claiming Takei has psychological issues if he doesn't invite Shatner to his wedding.

Let me ask you again: do you invite your co-workers to your wedding, let alone EX-co-workers?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

I think it depends on how close that group is. One of the team members where I work did invite co-workers...but then again, we are a VERY close-knit group and we do invite each other to significant events (weddings, baby showers, etc.). In one case we went to the funeral of a team member's father to show our support.

That said...such should NOT be universally expected, as in some workplaces it is normal to keep personal and professional life separate except in the case of official office functions.

 

[T'Aerwynd]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

At some point, we must ask ourselves -- is this really worth going on about?

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

Personally, I would have preferred that Shatner continue dealing with Takei's pathological "Bill Shatner was mean to me and ruined my career!" fixation the way he traditionally has...and that is by mostly just ignoring him. I've always loved the way Shatner's "above it all" demeanor made Takei look even more childish and petulant.

Shatner’s response to the whole bag of crap has always been something like, “Well, yes, I understand now that they’re pissed at me. And I guess I understand now the reasons why they’re pissed at me. But...they really aren’t very good reasons.” And they aren’t very good reasons, as so clearly and elegantly pointed out by DakotaSmith above.

OTOH, after having to listen to Takei's bullshit for THIRTY OR FORTY YEARS NOW, I can't really fault the Shat for finally swatting the little twerp back for once.

 

[WRStone]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

Which still has nothing to do with Shatner crying he didn't get invited to his ex-coworker's wedding (true or not), and claiming Takei has psychological issues if he doesn't invite Shatner to his wedding.

I entirely agree. I think Shatner made a big mis-step by bothering to acknowledge the slight -- if indeed there even was one.

Let's be frank: they're all old men and women at this point, and there will come a time not too far in the future when they're all dead. Whatever professional success they've had is (barring something unusual) all the professional success they're going to get.

Why bother any more? It's over. Move on, get a life for what remains of it.

Shatner should've said nothing, even if he felt like forty years of silently listening to people yammer nonsense about him was enough. On the other side, Takei's a happily married man, now, able to be open about his sexuality without fear of professional or personal repercussion. He should have just ignored Shatner.

It just doesn't matter any more -- if, indeed, it ever really did.

Let me ask you again: do you invite your co-workers to your wedding, let alone EX-co-workers?

Well, it's slightly more complex than that, but not much. These people do have an extended history brought about by the most bizarre situation any performer could ever imagine. I've often wondered what would go through my head if a mere three years of my life as a young man ended up dominating my existence until the day I died.

I mean, if you told me that the three years I spent working in IT at a bank would dominate my existence forever, I'd feel utterly bizarre. Some of the people I worked with I liked and some I didn't. Some of the management decisions I had to work under were interesting, and some were horrific. When the gig was over, there were a couple I never wanted to see again, but if I found that I had to associate with them in some way -- even work with them off and on -- for the rest of my life, I think the best I could bring myself to do would be to take the checks and be as polite as possible when around them.

It's a strange, twisted situation. I'm not sure how I'd react under those circumstances, particularly if I had the gargantuan ego of most performers.

The bottom line, though, is that it still really doesn't matter any more. Both of them should give it a rest and just get on with enjoying the remainder of their lives.

Dakota Smith

 

[Haggis and tatties]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

Because we love the old cast so much its like watching family fighting.....

 

[3D Master]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

OTOH, after having to listen to Takei's bullshit for THIRTY OR FORTY YEARS NOW, I can't really fault the Shat for finally swatting the little twerp back for once.

:sighs: Except for that annoying fact that Takei didn't do anything, so he can't swat back, he can only start the swatting, which would mean that Takei can swat back.

Let me ask you again: do you invite your co-workers to your wedding, let alone EX-co-workers?

Well, it's slightly more complex than that, but not much. These people do have an extended history brought about by the most bizarre situation any performer could ever imagine. I've often wondered what would go through my head if a mere three years of my life as a young man ended up dominating my existence until the day I died.

I mean, if you told me that the three years I spent working in IT at a bank would dominate my existence forever, I'd feel utterly bizarre. Some of the people I worked with I liked and some I didn't. Some of the management decisions I had to work under were interesting, and some were horrific. When the gig was over, there were a couple I never wanted to see again, but if I found that I had to associate with them in some way -- even work with them off and on -- for the rest of my life, I think the best I could bring myself to do would be to take the checks and be as polite as possible when around them.

Well, yes, but that doesn't include inviting them to your most private and cherished events in your life.

Which, indeed, if Takei did do that as he said, he went well beyond the call of duty as far as I'm concerned, and he's most definitely moved on and past it. And the thing is, the way Takei joined Shatner for his roast, and they were laughing at each other's jokes and insults, I find that more likely than not.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

:sighs: Except for that annoying fact that Takei didn't do anything, so he can't swat back, he can only start the swatting, which would mean that Takei can swat back.

Really? Takei didn’t do anything? I was under the impression Shatner was responding to earlier comments made by Takei in an interview. Something about, "I don't know if William Shatner's going to make the cut"?

What really tickles me about your arguments though is the way you seem to want everyone to ignore Takei’s prior history of this sort of thing when judging this latest little brouhaha. Sorry, ain’t gonna happen.

 

[3D Master]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

:sighs: Except for that annoying fact that Takei didn't do anything, so he can't swat back, he can only start the swatting, which would mean that Takei can swat back.

Really? Takei didn’t do anything? I was under the impression Shatner was responding to earlier comments made by Takei in an interview. Something about, "I don't know if William Shatner's going to make the cut"?

What really tickles me about your arguments though is the way you seem to want everyone to ignore Takei’s prior history of this sort of thing when judging this latest little brouhaha. Sorry, ain’t gonna happen.

No, William Shatner is answering to the fact he thinks he wasn't invited to Takei's wedding. And last time I checked, Takei didn't get married anytime before, and if he didn't invite Shatner then either, it's still not a reason to say he has psychological problems.

 

[kissthestar]

Re: Bill Shatner's response to being uninvited to George Takei's weddi

Did Shatner invite Takei to any of his own various weddings? I am not sure why an invitation was expected. Personally, I am usually content not to be invited to events requiring expensive gifts. I bet that's what this is all about. Shatner didn't send a gift, and now he's guilty!