Spoilers BEYOND in your new personal film rankings?

[Campe]

It is a lot overrated. Part of the reason is that there are so many poor Star Trek movies.

I was being nice.

If you are to compare it to all of Star Trek, it is certainly way up there. Personally, I believe there are far better entries in the 13 films made. But you are correct. If we, as Star Trek fans, use this as the end-all, be-all template for what Trek should be? Well, its no wonder we've had more poor entries than good ones.

As a Star Trek adventure, Wrath of Khan is a perfectly serviceable story with some flaws. It bothers me greatly that Kirk and Khan never meet face to face. Its relatively low budget shows off in spades and has a film in that regard has not aged well. The acting in certain places could be better (although I think its the best we've ever seen Shatner's Kirk).

If I were to look at it on its merits alone as a film: it lacks scope, ambition, the performances are weak, the direction is uninspired and it looks like it was made on a TV movie budget (of its time) with recycled shots (both true) and has script problems galore. If I were to compare it to other films of its time? Its not very good.

 

[Smellmet]

I was being nice.

If you are to compare it to all of Star Trek, it is certainly way up there. Personally, I believe there are far better entries in the 13 films made. But you are correct. If we, as Star Trek fans, use this as the end-all, be-all template for what Trek should be? Well, its no wonder we've had more poor entries than good ones.

As a Star Trek adventure, Wrath of Khan is a perfectly serviceable story with some flaws. It bothers me greatly that Kirk and Khan never meet face to face. Its relatively low budget shows off in spades and has a film in that regard has not aged well. The acting in certain places could be better (although I think its the best we've ever seen Shatner's Kirk).

If I were to look at it on its merits alone as a film: it lacks scope, ambition, the performances are weak, the direction is uninspired and it looks like it was made on a TV movie budget (of its time) with recycled shots (both true) and has script problems galore. If I were to compare it to other films of its time? Its not very good.

It somehow became more than the sum of it's parts though...

 

[Campe]

It somehow became more than the sum of it's parts though...

That's fair. Please don't mistake me. As a Star Trek adventure, I like Wrath of Khan (while I don't think its the end all, be all). But people complain that too many of the movies take the formula from Wrath of Khan and use it and they fall flat because its the same old, same old. Well, that's because WoK has almost a legendary status and every villain is touted as the next Khan. Well, they shouldn't be. They should be their own thing. But almost anytime the movies try to do something different, they fail. Its a catch 22 situation for sure.

 

[BillJ]

But almost anytime the movies try to do something different, they fail.

Fans complain if the get another Khan, fans complain (and don't show up) when they do something different.

Fuck the Kobayashi Maru. Making a Star Trek movie is the ultimate no-win scenario.

 

[Smellmet]

Fans complain if the get another Khan, fans complain (and don't show up) when they do something different.

Fuck the Kobayashi Maru. Making a Star Trek movie is the ultimate no-win scenario.

A poisoned chalice if ever there was one.

 

[Cyrus]

I am not ready to rank Beyond yet. But here are the rankings of Trek movies from IMDB users:

ST09 8.0
STID 7.8
TWOK 7.7
FC 7.6
STB 7.5
TVH 7.3
TUC 7.2
TSFS/GEN 6.6
TMP/INS/NEM 6.4
TFF 5.4

 

[VideoSteve]

1 The Voyage Home
2 The Undiscovered Country
3 First Contact
4 Star Trek
5 The Wrath of Khan
6 Star Trek Beyond

7 Star Trek Into Darkness
8 Generations

9 The Motion Picture
10 Nemesis
11 The Search for Spock
12 Insurrection
13 Final Frontier

 

[VideoSteve]

Star Trek movies are divided by 3 groups.

Great
Good
Bad

 

[CorporalClegg]

No Trek film is "bad." It's more like:

Good.
Solid.
Meh.

 

[BillJ]

No Trek film is "bad." It's more like:

Good.
Solid.
Meh.

Good.
Solid.
Meh.
Insurrection.

 

[CorporalClegg]

 

[lurok]

But is that Insurrection with or without Frakes/Sirtis commentary? Two very different experiences. I couldn't bear to watch INS until I discovered when bought boxed set that there was commentary track, and it totally gave me a completely new outlook on film and made soooo much, much more enjoyable . They both sound pissed (in a good way) and probably the closest thing I've encountered to a Rifftrax on a major studio release (for disclosure, I've produced studio & indie DVD 'making of's and commentaries, so know what goes on behind scenes ).

 

[donners22]

I am glad to see TUC getting some love here; I think it gets overlooked sometimes. My wife and I were appreciating it the other day when we were talking about how the Marvel moves are good/fun because they are other movie-genres with comic book dressing: Thor is a fish out of water movie, Winter Soldier is a spy thriller, Ant Man is a heist movie, etc. TUC is a political/conspiracy movie in Trek context that had the aded bonus of being (in a good way) topically applicable to its time with the fall of the Soviet Union. It's really great Star Trek, IMO, even though there are some flaws in the movie

TUC is my favourite. I think it's the film which is closest to Beyond, both in theme (the difficulty of transitioning from war to peace, especially for those who have forged their identity as warriors) and in the irreverent tone. Much as those on /r/startrek insist Trek must be super serious and deep, I've always found it at its best when it embraces silliness.

 

[Visitor1982]

What? Compare The Undiscovered Country to Beyond? How very dare you! ;-)

Star Trek VI is my all time favourite Star Trek movie. It has depth, a great story, action, suspense, mystery, great acting and was very moving.

Star Trek Beyond is entertaining, but nothing more to me. Those movies are miles, miles, no lightyears apart.

It's like comparing Schindler's List to Dumb and Dumber in my opinion.

 

[BillJ]

It has depth, a great story, action, suspense, mystery, great acting and was very moving.

As much as I love The Undiscovered Country (I rank it second behind TMP), it is goofy in places and has plot holes galore (a patch that could be traced from light years away). It becomes much worse when you factor in the Director's Edition and its "Scooby Doo" ending. It was a nice sendoff because it made the crew feel important and honored Star Trek's action-adventure roots in their final mission.

 

[ricardocube]

My personal opinion is that TWOK is Star Trek at its very best (factoring in its age), yet it isn't really Gene's Star Trek at all. No Star Trek film can be all things to all people, but Beyond does pretty well on that score. Yes there's things I would like done differently but on the whole is one heck of a Star Trek film. Its currently in my top 5, and maybe one day, my top 3. I have seen Beyond 3 times. Its one of those films that grows on you.

 

[jla1987]

Been a while since I've ranked the movies. Let's see...

1. TWOK
2. TUC
3. Beyond
4. TVH
5. FC
6. ST09
7. TFF
8. TMP
9. STID
10. GEN
11. NEM
12. TSFS
13. INS

 

[BillJ]

13. INS

 

[TheFlutteringHorde]

1. Star Trek (2009)
2. The Wrath of Khan
3. Beyond
4. First Contact
5. Into Darkness
6. The Voyage Home
7. The Undiscovered Country
8. The Search for Spock
9. The Final Frontier
10. Insurrection
11. Generations
12. Nemesis
13. The Motion Picture

 

[ialfan]

1. First Contact
2. The Wrath of Khan
3. The Undiscovered Country
4. The Search for Spock
5. The Voyage Home
6. Nemesis
7. Generations
8. Beyond
9. The Final Frontier
10. Star Trek (2009)
11. The Motion Picture
12. Insurrection
13. Into Darkness