Better series lead. Ed Mercer from "Orville" vs Burnham from "Discovery?"

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Jayson1, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Contrary to the popular phrase, you can absolutely compare apples and oranges, you just can't say they're the same. If I say I like oranges better than apples, I actually am comparing the two.
     
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  2. TribbleFeeder

    TribbleFeeder The Real Kim Cardassian Premium Member

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    I highly doubt that!
     
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  3. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh no, I had to clean my toddler's diaper. Otherwise I would have LOVED to fully engage in this debate.
     
  4. Amaris

    Amaris Fuzzy Logic Generator Premium Member

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    I will accept that as a vote of confidence! ♥
     
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  5. TribbleFeeder

    TribbleFeeder The Real Kim Cardassian Premium Member

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    B57F1AB5-0E00-4956-869F-3B27A7D12E7D.gif
     
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  6. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, I thought that the ex-wife stuff was actually all that was going on with Mercer in terms of a storyline. It worked because first it's lightweight and doesn't burden McFarlane with having to do drama. It's also rife with opportunities for laughs.

    As for his development as a command officer, I suspect that it may be set aside whenever there is an opportunity for a laugh at Mercer's expense. But I could be wrong.

    Character development is another of the reasons that serialization is better than stand alone. Serialization also helps a show build gravitas as it painstakingly builds it's characters and storylines. I think serialization is vital to modern dramas. However, with straight comedy, it probably doesn't matter as much.

    Gravita and drama are, IMO, the main reasons there is so much more chatter around here about DSC, than The Orville.
    The question of whether or not Burnham is on a command track is moot since she has been reinstated to Commander and likely 1st officer, of the Disco. Tilly is the only person that we know of on the ship that is on the command track.
     
  7. LJones41

    LJones41 Commodore Commodore

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    Considering that Discovery was on its way to Vulcan to pick up its new captain when Season One ended, I rather doubt that Burnham will become the new XO. Unless the situation becomes changed in Season Two.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  8. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Honestly, I think the show was better off having gotten rid of Fuller. I'm a huge fan of Fuller, I love American Gods, Hannibal, and Pushing Daisies.....but..... from what I've read online it seems like most of the worst ideas in the show, like the changes made to the Klingons, came from Fuller, and it got better as it got farther and farther away from what Fuller did. I don't know what went wrong with Fuller and Discovery, but it seems to me that something definitely did.
     
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  9. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    While the look of the Klingons are bad I wonder how different he would have written them. Plus even though he wrote the pilot and I am not sure what that even means. If he was fired I assume whatever he wrote had a rewrite. I wonder just how much Fuller actually made in the final product. Just because his name has the writing credit that doesn't mean we are exactly seeing his vision. For example "The Visitor" ep on "DS9" has Micheal Taylor with the writing credit but from what I have read Rene Echevveriva(don't know how to spell it) actually rewrote most of the script.


    Jason
     
  10. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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    I think I'd have liked to see Fuller's version. For one thing, "Lorca is from the Mirror Universe" was apparently not his idea. I'd also bet that he had a better idea of what the Klingons were about and why than the lamers who were inventing their own arc as they went along from week to week.
     
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  11. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Why would this prevent Burnham from being XO?
     
  12. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Burnham is the best thing about Discovery but Mercer is not the best thing about Orville. So Burnham.
     
  13. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Being on the way to Vulcan would not prevent Burnham from being CO but her not being officially vindicated for being blamed for starting the war would.
     
  14. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Problem though is if Pike is the temp Captain like it's hinted out in the previews then it means Saru would be first officer. Which is fine by me. Making her first officer already might be speeding things up. I kind of wish they did the "Stargate" thing were Jack O'Neil was in charge of a team but he wasn't really in charge of the base. That went to General Hammond. It's kind of what I was expecting when I first heard about the show. I kind of like the idea of Burnham being in charge of away team unit made up of her,Tilly,Stamets and eventually Saru though that means he would have to be reduced in rank. Also if this was season 1 then Tyler would make up the fourth team member. With this year I could see Spock being part of that team. Which would get confusing in terms of command structure but not anymore than "Stargate" got in the later years when I wasn't sure if Carter or Mitchell was in charge. Felt more like a co-leadership thing.



    Jason
     
  15. TribbleFeeder

    TribbleFeeder The Real Kim Cardassian Premium Member

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    Finally got around to watching season 5 of The Walking Dead. SMG is great in it.
     
  16. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm also curious about what Fuller's original vision for the series was. And with them making the changes to the Klingons, visual or otherwise, I wonder if Fuller had a reason behind that other than for aesthetic reasons.
     
  17. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree with you that having Burnham be first officer again, so soon, does feel sped up. Though Trek hasn't had a problem necessarily with this in the past, with "Acting" Ensign Wesley Crusher or even Kirk going from cadet to captain of the Enterprise in Star Trek 2009, though at other times dragging their feet promoting Harry Kim and Travis Mayweather. I do think Saru will be the first officer and I'm sort of hoping that Saru will be the captain at least by the end of Season 2. It would be a reversal for both Saru and Burnham, from where we first met them in the pilot. Though I also am intrigued by the idea of keeping Pike around. There's nothing we know about him from leaving the Enterprise until his tragic accident, so the door is open. Though there are others I wouldn't mind seeing either like Garth (but that would likely be too much like Lorca), Matthew Decker, Robert April (live-action canonization please), a Garrovick, a Stiles, or even Kirk. I saw someone propose that on You Tube, having Kirk as the captain and I think it would be a cool idea. Though better yet, have him be the first officer under Saru for a season or so. There's space between 2257 and 2265 for Kirk. On Memory Alpha it says he was instructing at the Academy in the late 2250s so they can put an assignment aboard Discovery in there. I was thinking of a Garrovick or Stiles because both open the door to introduce another female captain, and also both tie into TOS lore. Also, I wouldn't mind seeing Morrow, Cartwright, Nogura, Lori Ciana, Sonak, or Janice Lester on Discovery, with Morrow, Cartwright (again, shades of Lorca), Nogura, or Ciana as captain, and perhaps Lester as a member of the crew.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
  18. LJones41

    LJones41 Commodore Commodore

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    What Fuller ideas? The hairless Klingons? I got used to that pretty fast. Burnham starting out as a mutineer? I didn't mind. It was something new for a Trek lead. And considering her past history with Klingons, it made sense.

    Why do I get the feeling that many want the crew of Enterprise circa 2250s-2260s to be the main characters of Discovery? God, I hope I'm wrong. I had enough of them after the Kelvin timeline movies.


    WHY? This show is supposed to be about Burnham and the Discovery crew, not Pike and the Enterprise crew. I don't want to watch a show about both the Discovery and the Enterprise. Once Season 2 is over, I want Pike and the Enterprise gone - except for the occasional guest appearance, if possible.

    Huh?
     
  19. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Even though Burnham has been reinstated do you think her mutiny has been forgotten? That would make it difficult for her to get a command.
     
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  20. BillJ

    BillJ History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Not me. I wish they would move as far away from TOS as possible.