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Best/Worst "Buffy"/"Angel" episodes per season?
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Uh, being portrayed as a self-righteous angry ex-girlfriend (and almost like 'Buffy the way Faith imagines her to be like') in order to make Angel look better? Slapping Angel and then giving him a shocked look when he hits her back - with Angel having to remind her that she's stronger than him?! Buffy from BtVS knows that. Buffy from BtVS has no problem being slapped or punched by men and slapping and punching them in return, or the other way round.
I know people who saw AtS season 1 before BtVS and who believed that Buffy was a hypocritical jerk based on "Sanctuary" before they watched BtVS.
I should preface this with "I have seen only one or two episodes of Buffy (and maybe half of Angel since I'm working through it for real now)" I think. 
Considering her age and what I understand of what Faith put her through, I can't say her reactions are completely shocking - Faith did a real number on her life, no? Angel's little speech at the end certainly didn't make him look better (even if it also was understandable considering the last he'd seen her was "I Will Remember You" and he was lashing out).
I didn't read that as being shocked that a man would hit her - I read it as being shocked that Angel in particular would hit her. This isn't some villain or random person, and being hit by somebody you're close to hurts.
I found her actions (okay, her people's actions) far more infuriating in "Damage" and that episode leaves a much fouler taste in my mouth about the Scoobies. Yeah, she was something of a jerk in "Sanctuary," but people have really bad days, and were it not for the whole "Evil English Guys Attack!" things might have gone down differently.
Considering her age and what I understand of what Faith put her through, I can't say her reactions are completely shocking - Faith did a real number on her life, no? Angel's little speech at the end certainly didn't make him look better (even if it also was understandable considering the last he'd seen her was "I Will Remember You" and he was lashing out).
Slapping Angel and then giving him a shocked look when he hits her back - with Angel having to remind her that she's stronger than him?! Buffy from BtVS knows that. Buffy from BtVS has no problem being slapped or punched by men and slapping and punching them in return, or the other way round.
I didn't read that as being shocked that a man would hit her - I read it as being shocked that Angel in particular would hit her. This isn't some villain or random person, and being hit by somebody you're close to hurts.
I found her actions (okay, her people's actions) far more infuriating in "Damage" and that episode leaves a much fouler taste in my mouth about the Scoobies. Yeah, she was something of a jerk in "Sanctuary," but people have really bad days, and were it not for the whole "Evil English Guys Attack!" things might have gone down differently.
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Slapping Angel and then giving him a shocked look when he hits her back - with Angel having to remind her that she's stronger than him?! Buffy from BtVS knows that. Buffy from BtVS has no problem being slapped or punched by men and slapping and punching them in return, or the other way round.
I didn't read that as being shocked that a man would hit her - I read it as being shocked that Angel in particular would hit her. This isn't some villain or random person, and being hit by somebody you're close to hurts.
Yep.
I like DevilEyes comments in the other thread re: the portrayal of women in Angel, but I think she's off-base here.
To quote (by memory) one of the posters from this forum on a thread about Angel: "This episode shows that Angel, because he used to be a villain, can understand and help people the way that a self-righteous goodie-two-shoes like Buffy can't." Thing is, the episode did its best to shoehorn Buffy into the role of a self-righteous goodie-two-shoes who doesn't understand Angel's dedication to saving souls. And it looks even worse without the context from BtVS. (There are also people who think that Buffy felt some understanding for Faith in the last scene on "Who are You?" and that "Sanctuary" ignored it.)
She hit him first. That's why it doesn't make sense for her to be upset, unless you want to make her look hypocritical.Slapping Angel and then giving him a shocked look when he hits her back - with Angel having to remind her that she's stronger than him?! Buffy from BtVS knows that. Buffy from BtVS has no problem being slapped or punched by men and slapping and punching them in return, or the other way round.
I didn't read that as being shocked that a man would hit her - I read it as being shocked that Angel in particular would hit her. This isn't some villain or random person, and being hit by somebody you're close to hurts.
I should preface this with "I have seen only one or two episodes of Buffy (and maybe half of Angel since I'm working through it for real now)" I think.
Considering her age and what I understand of what Faith put her through, I can't say her reactions are completely shocking - Faith did a real number on her life, no? Angel's little speech at the end certainly didn't make him look better (even if it also was understandable considering the last he'd seen her was "I Will Remember You" and he was lashing out).
Slapping Angel and then giving him a shocked look when he hits her back - with Angel having to remind her that she's stronger than him?! Buffy from BtVS knows that. Buffy from BtVS has no problem being slapped or punched by men and slapping and punching them in return, or the other way round.
I didn't read that as being shocked that a man would hit her - I read it as being shocked that Angel in particular would hit her. This isn't some villain or random person, and being hit by somebody you're close to hurts.
Ah, don't get me started on Buffy's "role" in season 5 of AtS. I tend to just chalk it all up to the producers being pissed off that SMG was unavailable for guest star spots.
Most of the crossovers had characters from the other show acting out of character (particularly for the place they were in at the time in their own show), the worst examples are Willow in "Orpheus" and Angel in "Chosen".
To quote (by memory) one of the posters from this forum on a thread about Angel: "This episode shows that Angel, because he used to be a villain, can understand and help people the way that a self-righteous goodie-two-shoes like Buffy can't." Thing is, the episode did its best to shoehorn Buffy into the role of a self-righteous goodie-two-shoes who doesn't understand Angel's dedication to saving souls. And it looks even worse without the context from BtVS. (There are also people who think that Buffy felt some understanding for Faith in the last scene on "Who are You?" and that "Sanctuary" ignored it.)
She hit him first. That's why it doesn't make sense for her to be upset, unless you want to make her look hypocritical.
I should preface this with "I have seen only one or two episodes of Buffy (and maybe half of Angel since I'm working through it for real now)" I think.
Considering her age and what I understand of what Faith put her through, I can't say her reactions are completely shocking - Faith did a real number on her life, no? Angel's little speech at the end certainly didn't make him look better (even if it also was understandable considering the last he'd seen her was "I Will Remember You" and he was lashing out).
I didn't read that as being shocked that a man would hit her - I read it as being shocked that Angel in particular would hit her. This isn't some villain or random person, and being hit by somebody you're close to hurts.
Ah, don't get me started on Buffy's "role" in season 5 of AtS. I tend to just chalk it all up to the producers being pissed off that SMG was unavailable for guest star spots.
Most of the crossovers had characters from the other show acting out of character (particularly for the place they were in at the time in their own show), the worst examples are Willow in "Orpheus" and Angel in "Chosen".
Give Buff a break, Faith had essentially raped Riley, Buffy had every justification in the world to be angry as hell. As I understand it SMG did offer to guest star in season 5 Ats but Joss thought it would detract from the Angel characters and didn't want her stealing the show.
Personally I love Angel in Chosen, even the most avid Spuffer must cheer at his arrival and Orpheus is my favourite Angel ep ever
No, I understand her reasons to be angry, but her portrayal is skewed, especially without the context from BtVS. But it's the slapping scene I really have a problem with.
From everything I've read, they were planning to have SMG guest star, but she couldn't make it. Apparently she was even meant to guest star in "You're Welcome", but when he couldn't, they made it a Cordelia episode instead (which is lucky, I bet they would have otherwise left Cordelia's fate hanging just because Charisma Carpenter had pissed them off by hiding her pregnancy during S4). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_Welcome_%28Angel%29 Then they wanted her for the penultimate episode, "Power Play", but again she wasn't available. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Play_(Angel)
It doesn't matter at all whether one is a Spuffer or a Bangel or any shipper (in fact, "Chosen" is quite awful to Bangel so I don't understand why or how so many Bangels go crazy over Angel's appearance there: Angel comes off as petty, childish and jealous; Buffy declines his help, gives him a vague speech about possibly being together in some indefinite future, and sends him away to be with another guy; and Angel doesn't even confide in or talk to Buffy about just having lost his son and wiped his and his friends' memories and agreed to work for an evil law firm he used to fight against, which undermines the B/A relationship further and destroys the idea that they still had anything real. If I had still been a Bangel by that point, I would've given up on the ship after that episode). Angel's scenes just make no sense. It's just weird that he's so chipper after all that's happened to him in S4 of AtS, and it's even weirder that he's suddenly so interested in Buffy again. They don't even see each other more than once a year, and Angel spent the last couple of years in love with Cordelia and not giving Buffy a second thought. It just seems like he had to be suddenly so into her just because it was the series finale of BtVS.
And the cookie dough speech was baffling when given to Angel of all people. Except as a way to let him down gently, but the things she said to him still didn't make sense and I don't know why he would take them seriously. She doesn't see having fat grandchildren with Spike, but she does with Angel?! Hello - vampire! If you had no idea who Angel was and you saw that episode, you'd probably think he was human. It could have made sense if it was (a non-married) Riley, because he is human and could be seen as a safe option to fall back in the future. But Angel is a vampire, and one whose soul is detachable, and who tends to turn into a vicious killer the moment he experiences a moment of perfect happiness. That speech makes it sound like Buffy/Angel didn't work out because Buffy wasn't ready for a relationship, when in fact we all know it was for completely different reasons that are all about Angel, not Buffy, and all the reasons he left her are still there. He wanted her to have a 'normal life' (though I don't know how he thought she could have that anyway - hello, she's a Slayer...). Spike is not the choice to have a 'normal life' with, but Angel is even less so.
As for Willow in "Orpheus", she seems to have come right out of season 3 of Buffy. You have to wonder if the writer of the episode had even seen the last couple of seasons of BtVS or had just read the summaries. Willow of S7 was not comfortable with using magic for a long time, I don't think she would be making casual/funny remarks about the time when she skinned a man and tried to kill her friends and destroy the world.
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Well, the episode made Wesley pretty opposed to helping Faith too - sure, she had sadistically tortured him and done emotional damage too I'm sure, but the implications are she twisted the knife in Buffy emotionally - and Wesley isn't dealing with any emotional baggage about Angel in particular. Both of their reactions appear to be "Yeah, saving people is good - but not this one." Wesley comes around - who knows if Buffy would have if she'd been in LA for more than one night? Actually, given what I understand about the followup to this episode on her own show and Faith's eventually becoming a recurring character (right?) in the... last season?... I'd say this is likely, yes?
As to Buffy's vs. Angel's "mission"... well, isn't that one of the differences between the shows, especially at this point in their respective timelines? She's the Vampire Slayer, he's the Vampire With a Soul. Considering that the other two main characters on AtS at this point are former Buffy... antagonists (?) looking to rebuild their lives. I don't buy the "only a former villain can help her" idea, but he may well have been the best for it considering his own history; his own indifference towards Buffy's reaction is somewhat eyebrow raising though.
She reacted based on instinct and anger - I didn't see any sort of thought behind her hitting him except maybe "Go after Faith." Angel hitting her back (and her realizing that he'd done so) was a shock to the system. And she does, after all, stay and talk instead of screaming at him and/or running off. It doesn't make her look good, but split-second emotional reactions don't always, do they? And the last scene makes them both look far more petty.
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