Berman and Braga Were Sexist

[Voth commando1]

I'm not going to fight the culture wars here.
I'm tired and rather ill.

Also I couldn't care less it's a wearisome business.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Child prostitution? Kidnapping and sexual slavery?

So your totally cool with transactional sex, so long as the bill is payed?

If a man kidnaps your daughter and has her work in a prostitution wring where she gets payed the standard for prostitutes is that coercion? She is getting money for her services?

You need to reflect on your own morality.

Wow, so you really didn't understand what I said at all. I clearly used the word CONSENSUAL. I was making a point about not shaming sex workers when they are consenting parties. I said absolutely nothing about prostitution in the context of kidnapping and children. That is rape. Don't give me that shit.

 

[Voth commando1]

Wow, so you really didn't understand what I said at all. I clearly used the word CONSENSUAL. I was making a point about not shaming sex workers when they are consenting parties. I said absolutely nothing about prostitution in the context of kidnapping and children. Don't give me that shit.

And you'll consent to walking the plank if your stomach is empty or a revolver is piercing the back of your forehead.

Consent is an inherently subjective action.

And who said anything about shaming? Prostitutes need all the legal and moral help they can get.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

And you'll consent to walking the plank if your stomach is empty or a revolver is piercing the back of your forehead.

Consent is an inherently subjective action.

And who said anything about shaming? Prostitutes need all the legal and moral help they can get.

You clearly do not understand the definition of consent. You seem to think consent and coercion mean the same thing.

 

[Voth commando1]

You clearly do not understand the definition of consent. You seem to think consent and coercion mean the same thing.

Hardly.

There is coerced consent

And there is uncoerced consent.

Coerced consent can be implied-if I don't do this my kids will starve

Or it can be explicit You wouldn't want the your kids found at the bottom of the river would you?

Or uncoerced I do this(whatever this is) willingly, freely, voluntarily.

I understand the difference.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Hardly.

There is coerced consent

And there is uncoerced consent.

Coerced consent can be implied-if I don't do this my kids will starve

Or it can be explicit You wouldn't want the your kids found at the bottom of the river would you?

Or uncoerced I do this(whatever this is) willingly, freely, voluntarily.

I understand the difference.

In the context of sex and rape culture, there is no such thing as coerced consent. There is either consensual sex, or rape. That's it.

 

[BillJ]

And you'll consent to walking the plank if your stomach is empty or a revolver is piercing the back of your forehead.

It isn't consent because there is no free will involved.

 

[Spot261]

The question of course is how many "consenting" prostitutes are truly that? There exists to me a difference between consenting due to one's own personal choice and consenting through desperation or the perception that something is a required act. Someone choosing to sleep with a woman (or a man, yes) knowing that person is only willing to go ahead with the act in order to make a living and isn't attracted to them is (to my mind) exploiting that person in one of the worst possible ways.

Is that distinct to outright rape? It's hard not to see them in pretty much the same terms and frankly both are hideous.

I'm not inclined to believe all prostitutes are genuinely making a free choice, even if they aren't directly coerced by a customer or pimp they are likely acting out of desperation because that's what they have to do in order to survive or feed their kids. Doubtless there are many out there who have made a conscious decision to engage in transactional sex as a legitimate career choice and that is not a concern to me, but I think it's very dangerous to assume that is the norm.

Coercion is coercion no matter how indirect and someone who feels they HAVE to perform an act is to my mind raped, no matter the circumstances.

The same applies to performers looking for a role, feeling they must sleep with someone in order to be cast is an absolutely awful state of affairs and it also worries me that extends to what happens on screen. We've already heard in this thread about Terri Farrells treatment and how she was effectively sexualised against her wishes. How many performers find themselves compromising on what they are prepared to do not only offscreen but on?

 

[1001001]

Okay we've gone way off the rails here. I k ow I played a part in that, so my apologies.

Closing.