Beloved episodes you can't get into

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Talos IV, Aug 2, 2022.

  1. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    How about sex, pizza and then more sex?
     
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  2. SantaEddie74

    SantaEddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm listening...
     
  3. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    Of course it had to be spelled out - its an episode not a book where we can examine what everyone is thinking. If they had just suggested that Edith was a focal point and she must die or "bad things" would happen I'm sure we would have all been complaining.
    Maybe it would have been better if Kirk was in denial and said to Spock he couldn't prove any of it and still insisted that McCoy must be stopped from killing her but realised in the end and did the right thing.
    I'm still very happy with the episode and its one of Star Trek's best. Perhaps the future scene could have been toned down but just a bit of tweaking. I liked the romance except the short time period but there's been worse.
     
  4. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Premium Member

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    What you're both missing is that what Edith does that causes history to change actually isn't the point. Ellison's version of the story is concerned with theme, specifically the cruelty of fate where a virtual nobody like Edith ends up being an inadvertent fulcrum whereas a veteran like Trooper, who literally lost limbs for a cause, doesn't matter to the steamroller of fate, and that the worst of us (Beckwith) can do a noble thing with terrible consequences.

    Even Justman bemoaned that the staff rewrite, while filmable, lost the poetry of Ellison's version.
     
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  5. Eddie Roth

    Eddie Roth Commodore Commodore

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    Perhaps. But I've read Ellison's script as well as the graphic novel adaptation, and to my mind, this is in no way better than the episode as aired. The whole Beckwith subplot takes up way too much space and I found that his version indeed wasn't focused enough on what I've always felt was the central issue here: allowing a loved one to die for the sake of the whole universe (rather than a not-so-well-defined theme of "importance" of individuals). This, in a sense, prefigured the whole "needs of the many, needs of the few" theme that the ST movies made such excellent use of later.
     
  6. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    Ellison's story/script might be better for a movie ot a 2-parter but it is Star Trek TOS, Kirk and co must still be the main focus.
     
  7. King Bob!

    King Bob! The King of Kings Premium Member

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    While TOS plays in the background. If you’re going all out, might as well go full George Costanza.

     
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  8. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Premium Member

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    I'm not going to get into another pissing match over which version of "City" anyone finds better. I replied merely to address that several of the deficits of the aired episode were being lain at Ellison's feet, when they weren't his choices. The title actually had two meanings in his script: literally the alien city on a distant hill on the planet of the time vortex and the city of Chicago (the original setting) in which the story took place. Edith wasn't a mouthpiece for Roddenberry. Edith wasn't Hitler's enabler. The story themes were much more complicated.
     
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  9. Richard S. Ta

    Richard S. Ta Commodore Commodore

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    I like every episode of TOS to some degree. I know some of them are duff but they are something from another time. I could watch any TOS episode right now and find something to enjoy in it.
     
  10. 1001001

    1001001 Workin' Them Angels Moderator

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    I agree with the Philip J Fry Ratio:

    “79 episodes, about 30 good ones.”
     
  11. Talos IV

    Talos IV Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Same. Even episodes I really dislike (and there are several) have at least one excellent line of dialogue, or one cool camera angle, or one inspired music cue, or one interesting guest star to get me through them.
     
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  12. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I like any episode with William Shatner or Leonard Nimoy in it
     
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  13. Talos IV

    Talos IV Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That's kind of like what Rod Serling said about Twilight Zone:
    "I guess a third of the shows were pretty damned good. Another third would have been passable. Another third were dogs -- which I think is a little better batting average than the average show.”
     
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  14. hbquikcomjamesl

    hbquikcomjamesl Commodore Commodore

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    And it's a FAR better batting average than the current crop of monuments to Kitman's Law infesting network television.
     
  15. SantaEddie74

    SantaEddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  16. King Bob!

    King Bob! The King of Kings Premium Member

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    I agree with this. But I find all of them "watchable" to one degree or another.
     
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  17. ananta

    ananta Captain Captain

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    I actually like every episode, even the bad ones. The whole series is like therapy to me even after all these years.
     
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  18. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    I will say (and I assume "Beckwith" in the filmed version was the old Wino who picked of McCoy's dropped Phaser and accidently disintegrated himself - with ZERO effect of 'Federation History' - just made me go WTF, as in why did they do that - and even as a kid wondering, "Hey. why didn't his death change anything?" Narratively, I didn't feel it added anything, and it certainly wasn't amusing, but honestly I didn't feel sad, and was thinking "Well, you should never fool around with something you really don't understand; an yah, it cost him everything. But yeah, it didn't add anything to the story being told in the filmed episode in the long run.
     
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  19. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The wino was more Trooper, the veteran who fought at Verdun in Ellison's version. He didn't matter either.
     
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Same. There are several I skip, for a variety of reasons. Usually my top 10 make the rotation and that's good enough for me.