Bat'leths

[JRoss]

Does anyone actually like them? When I was young I thought they looked cool, then I actually put a few minutes' thought into their practicality.

They are awful weapons. The grip reduces their reach to almost nothing. They might be decent at catching a blade, but their offensive potential is dreadful.

 

[C.E. Evans]

It's a Klingon thing.

They are awful weapons. The grip reduces their reach to almost nothing. They might be decent at catching a blade, but their offensive potential is dreadful.

The same could be said for any sword or knife. But bat'leths actually have more than one grip, which can increase its reach if swung like a traditional sword.

 

[Autistoid]

We don't know klingon body structures it's intensely hard to judge.

Different body types do better with different weapons.


Also keep in mind for klingon's it's not simply about being better it's a religious item as well.

In reality there is no point in hand to hand weapons in the trek universe(outside of the highly important issue of war politics).

There are lots of things in modern warfare we avoid, as part of a code of ethics.

 

[Timo]

In TNG "Birthright", we see (half a) bat'leth being used as a farming implement. Worf is appalled by this, but what if the thing really is a farming implement first and foremost?

Kahless is credited with forging the first sword of this sort, and of overthrowing a tyrant, i.e. leading a rebellion. Might be the peasants rebelled by turning their farming implements into makeshift weapons - and after their victory, these weapons were elevated to cult status and preserved (mostly) as is despite their deep shortcomings as actual tools of war.

Being great at defense would also be good for peasant rebellions: those succeed by the numbers, and if the peasants can keep themselves alive long enough to swarm the professional warriors opposing them, they win.

In TNG "Reunion", Worf wields a bat'leth but the more pragmatic Duras grabs a conventional broadsword. Perhaps it's the sign of an honorable warrior to use the traditional, inferior weapon, and the sign of a great warrior to triumph despite the weapon's shortcomings?

All said and done, I love the concept of the bat'leth - it's alien enough, and in its own alien terms it's also practical enough, or at least logical enough...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Albertese]

I recall reading at some point that there was a Korean Martial Arts school out there where the guys were super enthusiastic about the bat'leth. They said it combined the qualities of a sword and quarterstaff in a new way and was one of the first truly original weapons invented in a very long time. They were developing fighting styles and forms and the works.

I read this a long time ago and can no longer recall the reference. But you might want to try to find it if you're interested in that sort of thing.

--Alex

 

[Jedi_Master]

I am somewhat ashamed to admit this, but my friend purchased a bat'leth and we took turns practicing combat with it versus various bladed instruments. It is a fairly effective weapon. It's width makes it difficult for a sword to penetrate the bearers defense, it is flexible enough that if you are strong you can handle it one handed, it allows for a variety of slashing and stabbing moves, particularly uppercuts. It's a good weapon, but does require a lot of strength to handle properly. Surprisingly, a person armed with two short blade knives is the most dangerous opponent as they can lock the bat'leth into position with one and kill with the other.

 

[JRoss]

It's longest reach still makes either of the two bottom blades fairly useless. Modern swords and knives are very useful. Pretty much the only impractical swords from earth cultures are that Filipino chain sword and some of the funkier-looking Chinese models. Klingons should have used khopeshes. Thosw are cool swords with defensive abilities. The Mek'leth kind of looks like one but is really short.

 

[Jedi_Master]

It's longest reach still makes either of the two bottom blades fairly useless. Modern swords and knives are very useful. Pretty much the only impractical swords from earth cultures are that Filipino chain sword and some of the funkier-looking Chinese models. Klingons should have used khopeshes. Thosw are cool swords with defensive abilities. The Mek'leth kind of looks like one but is really short.

The two bottom blades are for killing uppercuts. There is a nice sequence of
1) Sweep opponents weapon away
2) Stun with blow from bat'leth handle
3) Kill with uppercut.

 

[Kor]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

The Bat'leth, as well as techniques involved in using it, were thoughtfully developed by an actual martial arts expert, with design influences from real weapons. So I will defer to his judgment as to whether it is practical or not.

Kor

 

[Lance]

I liked them, and I liked the whole mystical martial arts thing that came with them. On the other hand, I didn't much like the 'brain bug' that led to them effectively becoming one more nail in the coffin of the Klingons characterisation, taking them down the path of being these mighty Space Vikings who forego more sophisticated weaponary in favor of hack 'n' slash. Sure, it enhanced their look and it was pretty cool to watch, but on another level it cheapened them a bit also.

 

[T'Girl]

It's longest reach still makes either of the two bottom blades fairly useless. Modern swords and knives are very useful.

Being double ended, you don't have to reverse your grip, and your opponent can't know which end you're going to use to attack.

The only real downside of the weapon is it's balance is wacky, but practice overcomes that.

 

[at Quark's]

I always got the feeling bat'leths were meant as ritual/training/excercise weapons primarily, the Klingons being a technologically advanced society having all kinds of beam weapons and such at their disposal. Although I still could understand their use as melee weapons in tight spots, I never understood why they would be used in any serious military operation, such as the attempt at taking over DS9 -- much the same way we wouldn't send out military commando's in a combat situation using ancient weapons (not as their primary weapon at least).

Though I must admit, of course it's a lot 'cooler' to see Klingons wielding a bat'leth instead of a phaser/disruptor...

 

[Ghrakh]

They're cool. I don't have one.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Sure, the bat'leth might look like it's hard to wield, but it might have been designed that way on purpose. Makes its user WORK harder at it. Because if they can't do it, they'll be dead...and by Klingon logic, it means they deserved it.

 

[Ithekro]

I always got the feeling bat'leths were meant as ritual/training/excercise weapons primarily, the Klingons being a technologically advanced society having all kinds of beam weapons and such at their disposal. Although I still could understand their use as melee weapons in tight spots, I never understood why they would be used in any serious military operation, such as the attempt at taking over DS9 -- much the same way we wouldn't send out military commando's in a combat situation using ancient weapons (not as their primary weapon at least).

Though I must admit, of course it's a lot 'cooler' to see Klingons wielding a bat'leth instead of a phaser/disruptor...

Maybe they didn't consider taking DS9 a serious operation. They don't think very highly of humans as warriors.

 

[Makarov]

Personally I don't think it would be a terribly practical weapon, then again, neither would a lightsaber, a phaser without a sight, or a flashlight that you hold cupped in your palm. Looks really cool though and Worf's fights are very convincing.

When it comes to trek swords I'll take that retractable katana sulu had in Trek 09.

 

[C.E. Evans]

They're cool. I don't have one.

Years ago, I bought a real double-ended sword that was inspired by a bat'leth, but was designed to be easy to carry. It was no joke, the blades were sharp as hell and even swinging it around to get the feel of it was dangerous (yeah, I cut myself badly with it on the first day, and it would have been nastier if hadn't been just a graze).
http://s6.thisnext.com/media/largest_dimension/7CE8F007.jpg

These days, the place I got it from has one that looks more like a real bat'leth, although I think the blades are false- or flat-edged.
http://images.ontheedgebrands.com/get/w/400/h/400/A43-SZ05248.image?notfound=notavailable

 

[fireproof78]

Here you guys go:

A video of a black smith making a real one

Qapla!

 

[FormerLurker]

Anymore blacksmiths make bat'leths with straight handles. If you watch any episode with a bat'leth in it, the curve of the bladed ends goes all the way across from point to point. This was intentional by the original designer, as deflecting an opponent's strike by holding one arm forward of the other causes the strike to slide off at an angle that leaves the opponent vulnerable. The curve also facilitates carrying the bat'leth by holding it with the curve essentially tucked into your elbow. Watch the way Worf handles it the first time we see it. "Make it part of your hand. Part of your arm." he says. It isn't a sharpened club. There was a great deal of thought behind the design.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

I've seen a few listings on Etsy for people actually making the bat'leth, as well as some of the other Klingon knives. Can't speak to the accuracy, of course.