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Bad Language in Discovery

I was not offended when Tilly said "F_____g cool!" It was a celebratory joyful expletive, and I smiled in solidarity with her character when I saw her say it. My only concern in all that I have written on this topic, is with regard to the suitability for younger children.
Just on that note.. about suitability to younger children. I respect that, you are allowed to believe that. I was brought up in a family with a father who was military and knew how to swear. Married someone in the navy. These guys know a bad word or two. However they choose not to say them in front of children. It has nothing to do with protecting these children from ever hearing these words which is a situation out of their sphere of control. The OP just seemed dismayed that Star Trek Discovery has introduced a word he doesn't think is suitable for his home. So what if the word 'damn' was used in another show on another day, that is not the example he is reacting to. In my opinion :)
 
No. It really, really doesn’t.

Your opinion.

But Star Trek has always been billed as more than TV. Gene Roddenberry started that idea. I don't quite hold up the idea that the was a god, but did set an ethos, and sometimes those ideas become reality through belief. From Nichelle Nichols inspiring Whoopi Goldberg to be an actress, to Mae Carol Jemison become an astronaut - two name but two examples. This show has been around now 60+ years. That doesn't happen because it showed some sits, or had great special effects. It's more than that and has a lot of expectation riding on that. And to argue otherwise is churlish.
 
The OP just seemed dismayed that Star Trek Discovery has introduced a word he doesn't think is suitable for his home.

Nope: OP said: "I don't think I'm being prudish and I know 'language' is heard everywhere but really..... It does nothing for the plot apart from lowering things."

Great job we have a record here! And that was my view too. It's just... crass! Not cool. Not modern. Just crass!

And if it was a properly adult show, I could probably accept it. But this week was just the same old stupid clap trap... technology doing mind melds across space? Yawn.. stupid nonsense from 30 years ago. The swearing just seems a more desperate attempt to make this show seem vaguely relevant today.
 
Nope: OP said: "I don't think I'm being prudish and I know 'language' is heard everywhere but really..... It does nothing for the plot apart from lowering things."

Great job we have a record here! And that was my view too. It's just... crass! Not cool. Not modern. Just crass!

And if it was a properly adult show, I could probably accept it. But this week was just the same old stupid clap trap... technology doing mind melds across space? Yawn.. stupid nonsense from 30 years ago. The swearing just seems a more desperate attempt to make this show seem vaguely relevant today.
Do you think it degraded the flow of the scene? I thought it was clumsy. Like it was sign posting how edgy they writers wanted to be.
 
And were you equally concerned with Kirk saying "Let's get the hell out of here"? Or Picard's use of "Merde"?
I was not concerned. There is different impacts/implications from different words. The f word is pretty unique. We generally try to allow our small children to enjoy some years of relative innocence. How much and when to expose little ones to harsher realities, is a bit of a gray area. Should we expose babies in cribs to vulgar language just to get them acclimated to the real adult world? I'd say no (and I not saying you are advocating that). How and when to expose children to more adult content is a delicate matter.
 
I was not concerned. There is different impacts/implications from different words. The f word is pretty unique. We generally try to allow our small children to enjoy some years of relative innocence. How much and when to expose little ones to harsher realities, is a bit of a gray area. Should we expose babies in cribs to vulgar language just to get them acclimated to the real adult world? I'd say no (and I not saying you are advocating that). How and when to expose children to more adult content is a delicate matter.
They're just words. Fuck means sex or wow or ouch or duh and a few other things. If you make it a negative for kids, that's on you. I don't think babies will know the difference between "fuck" and "gaga goo". Their innocence will not be impacted by hearing it.
 
They're just words. Fuck means sex or wow or ouch or duh and a few other things. If you make it a negative for kids, that's on you. I don't think babies will know the difference between "fuck" and "gaga goo". Their innocence will not be impacted by hearing it.
'Just words' applied to babies do equate to noises, however it doesn't take long in human growth to realise words can be deal breakers.
 
If there was anything offensive about that scene, it was how fucking stupid the science in question was.
I actually can't argue with that. The science in this show is on the dubious side. 'Course, I've never watched Trek, expecting hard science fiction.
 
Sure. Except the 'harsher realities' here are the sight of gruesomely mutilated people, not the word 'fuck'.
I guess to some folk it might be both. I'm trying to think what shows I was shielded from .. and it always comes back to Doctor Who. That has evolved into a darker version of its old self more recently. Thing is we weren't allowed to watch it but we did. My brother loved it and was I scared! (Wuss).
 
Sure. Except the 'harsher realities' here are the sight of gruesomely mutilated people, not the word 'fuck'.
Yes indeed. So really, the bigger issue is the producer's choice of graphic content/language, setting the age rating for the show. They went for a more adult audience, excluding younger viewers, at least by way of rating. Was that necessary for commercial success? Maybe. In my idealistic hope, it would have been nice to have a trek for all to enjoy. Maybe that means yet another trek - Kid Trek (not serious about the name). Maybe that's what the animated series was, and largely TOS. But with today's adult content exposure to children via the Internet, violent computer games, etc., maybe the time of any innocence whatsoever is past.
 
Your opinion.

But Star Trek has always been billed as more than TV. Gene Roddenberry started that idea. I don't quite hold up the idea that the was a god, but did set an ethos, and sometimes those ideas become reality through belief. From Nichelle Nichols inspiring Whoopi Goldberg to be an actress, to Mae Carol Jemison become an astronaut - two name but two examples. This show has been around now 60+ years. That doesn't happen because it showed some sits, or had great special effects. It's more than that and has a lot of expectation riding on that. And to argue otherwise is churlish.
It’s never been “more than TV”. That individuals have found inspiration from one or other of its iterations has ZERO bearing on what Trek itself is, and always has been—commercial entertainment. As such, it has NO “moral obligation” of any kind. Any sense that the audience is “owed” something inspiring is unwarranted entitlement, nothing more. We are NEVER “owed” satisfaction from any artistic endeavour.
 
Also, there's over 700 episodes of PG rated Star Trek. Kids have a lot of options besides Discovery. And hey, maybe because if this show's success, we may get another show down the line that takes a more traditional yet modern approach to what TOS and TNG did as shows a family can watch together. In the meantime, it's nice to get this different iteration of Trek. It's not bringing the franchise down, it's adding variety.
 
Don't confuse your personal preference (which is fine) with the norm for society at large. And how does a TV show cursing "debase society", exactly? That's absurd.
I think to say it's absurd, is absurd. I am so not puritanical... But then to dismiss it is also absurd. I wouldn't say fuck to my boss. Many wouldn't say it to their mums (I do). I wouldn't have said it to my gran. I couldn't have said it to my teacher. if you said it to a stranger on the street, it'd probably be negative. Until that day that kids are taught fuck at school as part of their vocabulary, personally I would have preferred Trek to remain an inclusive show - because (won't repeat it, I said it above) Trek had a huge influence on my life and it seems a shame that today's kids can't be brought up into it.
You missed my point completely. I didn't dismiss his decision to not want his child to hear the f-word or his personal objection to its use. I explicitly said that's fine and I have no problem with that, because how he chooses to raise his kid is his business, as is his personal viewing preferences.

I dismissed the ridiculous notion that using the f-word as a positive expression of wonder in a show clearly marked as being for mature audiences on a streaming platform that a child just can't wander into seeing and that you can screen beforehand and skip over the offending scene if you want to watch it with your kid somehow has the potential to "debase society." Society will be just fine.

I just became a marketing minion.... but people like Mae Carol Jemison became an astronaut, inspired by Trek. She was ten when The Original Series aired. Imagine if she was excluded... what would her life have become?
Again, you are making the same mistake he made of assuming that your preference represents the norm of how people will react to this. Not all parents or people prioritize cursing, especially when used as a positive expression of wonder rather than an insult or description of sex, on the same level as violence or sex or other factors.

It's odd that in a show that features Klingons being shown nearly beheading Starfleet guards, torturing people, stabbing people in the heart, getting disintegrated into a green mist, having their faces burned off, etc. that it's an expression of awe at fantastic space travel using the f-word that is drawing so much ire. I don't recall a camera focus on throats being split apart by a blade being a feature of Trek before either, and I think that would be far more problematic than a child hearing "This is so fucking cool!" which, unless they've been raised by wolves, is a word I'm sure they've heard at school before.

I would imagine that enthusiastic scientists and astronauts have abundant opportunities during their schooling and career to say "This is so fucking cool!", so the notion that hearing it in the context of expressing wonder at space would dissuade them from pursuing that life course rather than strike them as a natural reaction doesn't ring true.
 
Yes, but we teach them which words are "bad".
As is appropriate to do. Language is an expression and has obvious meaning but it isn't without social consequence. There are offensive examples of words that have become representative of denigration or historical inequality.. because a majority recognises them as such. Times change and sensitivities do too. Tilly and Stamets usage of the F word was in a context not to be viewed as anything other than a qualifier (though I still argue the scene was embarrassingly self-indulgent showing off by the writers and the character..). It's just that there is a reason some words remain more offensive than others. I would suggest 'fuck' has lost much of its taboo but I still understand that it hasn't been entirely embraced given censorship and the reaction it still engenders. The writers knew they didn't have to worry about not including it and plopped it into the scene because they simply could.
 
Is fuck still on the bad list because it can refer to sex? If we said oh coitus!. Or that was coitus cool would that be different?
 
Childhood innocence is ruined by things like polio, not naughty words. Again, did anyone forget what being a child was like? Children aren't these mythical majestic little creatures that are made sunshine and rainbows. Most of the time they're like this:


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