Bad Language in Discovery

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Jamie Calderhead, Oct 21, 2017.

  1. ralfy

    ralfy Captain Captain

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    Because the way you think the use of bad language works in media can be questioned.
     
  2. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    Do you mean "can't"?
    Where did I say that?
     
  3. ralfy

    ralfy Captain Captain

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    I don't understand how "fucking cool" is easier to understand than, say, "fascinating" or "remarkable." Or is there something about the target audience of STD that I am missing?

    If it was meant to develop Tilly's character (in the same way that McCoy's words may also characterize him as cranky but also pragmatic because of his age), then is this meant to develop the latter? Can this be connected to another thread where forum members are debating on her age?

    About standards and practices, how does this apply to a subscription model? Also, for censors this can be remedied easily by overwriting the soundtrack.

    About finding the use of the word refreshing, I wasn't referring to Tilly but to myself. What I said is that I hear such terms everyday. Also, I don't see how it is now to the franchise as you pointed out earlier that McCoy and others do the same. It even became a funny point in some Voyage Home scenes.

    Finally, your last point is partly right. The ultimate goal of franchise owners is to maximize profits, and if that means more changes for future shows, then that is what they'll do. I don't think it has anything to do with learning from science fiction or the new or strange. Rather, it is to make the new or strange familiar.
     
  4. ralfy

    ralfy Captain Captain

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    Can.
     
  5. ralfy

    ralfy Captain Captain

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    We can see how it worked the past few centuries.
     
  6. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    Then I'm confused.
     
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  7. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes. Yes there is. It's remarkably fascinating.

    If anyone wishes to know how people will speak in the distant future, there's a documentary available that is actually from the future. The title is Idiocracy.
     
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  8. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Admiral

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    "Fascinating" and "remarkable" are both good words. So Is "fucking cool." Not sure why you're assuming that the former is somehow preferable to the other, or that the latter implies something negative about the target audience. It's not a matter of comprehension. Of course viewers know what "fascinating" means, just like they know that "fucking cool" is another way people can express excitement. But not everybody uses the same expressions every time, nor should every character speak the same way. You're right that Spock or Seven of Nine would probably not say "fucking cool," but apparently Tilly does sometimes.

    Which is great. Different characters should have different speech patterns. Spock should not sound like McCoy. Worf should not sound like Picard. The EMH should not talk like Seven of Nine. That's what makes them individuals and distinct from other.

    Finally, you seem to be implying that any changes to STAR TREK will only be done for cynical commercial reason "to maximize profits" as opposed to, say, trying something new artistically to keep a fifty-plus-year-old franchise fresh and interesting. Crazy idea, but maybe they added "fuck" to the dialogue because they thought it worked in the scene, in order to make the characters more down-to-earth and believable? Which, to be clear, is NOT the same thing as dumbing them down. It's just about writing them as quirky, interesting human beings (and aliens) with various different ways of expressing themselves. Just like in real life.

    You also seem to be taking for granted that "fascinating" is always preferable to "fucking cool" because--I don't know--it's somehow more intellectual or cultured or elevated or whatever. But good dialogue is whatever gets the point across. Sometimes "fucking cool" works just as well as "remarkable." And vice versa.

    In short, "bad language" is not by definition bad. It's just language.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
  9. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Language can be bad though.
     
  10. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    Well, grammar can. And ideas expressed using language.
     
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  11. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Commodore Commodore

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    I thought Tilly's expression was well cultured. Maybe a tad snobbish for Trek.
     
  12. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    Just watched Ep 5.
    I know I know.
    It was freakin adorable.
     
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  13. ralfy

    ralfy Captain Captain

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    That should be included in the Trek timeline, then. LOL.
     
  14. ralfy

    ralfy Captain Captain

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    My guess is that her choice of words would be based on how her peers speak or something she gathered from a hobby (like watching centuries-old movies and TV shows). As the term is hardly used in any of the shows and movies, and Tilly uses it only once throughout several episodes, then one can only guess that her choice is influenced by the latter. Perhaps the same might apply to Stamets. Of course, they could have made the scene funnier:

    Tilly: This is so fucking cool!

    Stamets: No, cadet, it is not fucking cool. It's soooooooo fuckeen cooooooool.

    About different speech patterns, that argument should apply to Tilly if we start seeing her engaging in such throughout several episodes, or maybe even at the start when she meets Michael for the same time. For example, "I'm like, soooo allergic to polyester, y'know." Or something similar to a high rising terminal. Then again, she's probably only imitating a character she's watching from a centuries-old movie.

    Concerning the use of not just profanity but contemporary profanity to make a show down-to-earth, I find nothing refreshing or special about that. That's because I see the same thing in many TV shows and movies, not to mention my neighbors. At the very least, if profanity has to be used, then I'd like to see something hardly used and hopefully even witty. Maybe anything down-to-earth can be reserved for scenes involving extreme emotions.

    In any event, not only did that term not work for the scene, but the scene itself looked sophomoric.
     
  15. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Who is Tilly?

    In ten words.
    Go.
     
  16. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Admiral

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    I feel like we're talking past each other at this point. One more time:

    1) We've never heard "fuck" on STAR TREK before simply because the writers were never allowed to use it before. It's not a continuity issue; it's a censorship issue. But the rules have changed, so . . voila. They can say "fuck" now. That's all the explanation we need because we all know that's the real explanation.

    2) It's refreshing for STAR TREK. Sure, you can hear "fuck" elsewhere, but it's new and different for STAR TREK. That's what I was saying.
     
  17. WraithDukat

    WraithDukat Captain Captain

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    I remember when I went to the cinema to see Insurrection the whole audience sniggered like school girls when Riker said "We're through running from these bastards".
     
  18. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    I'll do it in three. She's fucking cool.
     
  19. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Commodore Commodore

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    Back in 1984

    TSFS: "You Klingon bastards!"

    Irritable fan: "How DARE the writers decide to include foul language in my Star Trek?! The show never needed that. That show was above such filth! Leonard Nimoy and Harve Bennett are just trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. SELL OUTS! That's what they are!"
     
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  20. jotap

    jotap Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    they say fuck...and the punishment they give to Mudd is to deliver him to a daughter of a rich guy.
    bah.
    Fuck this. makes no sense.
    Episode without credibility, the worse so far
     
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