Because the way you think the use of bad language works in media can be questioned.
Bad Language in Discovery
- Thread starter Jamie Calderhead
- Start date
Because the way you think the use of bad language works in media can be questioned.
Do you mean "can't"?
Where did I say that?
By that reasoning, all Star Trek shows should feature some exotic future lingo with no slang or casual idioms from our time. But STAR TREK characters have always spoken twentieth- century English for ease of understanding. So "fuck" is no more unlikely than, say, McCoy saying "In a pig's eye" or any other ordinary twentieth-century expression. "Everybody remember where we parked." "Guess who's coming to dinner?" "Go to hell." Etc.
As for the movies, simply replace "standards and practices" with the Motion Picture rating system and you have the same real-world explanation. You didn't hear a lot of "fuck"s in the movies because Paramount wanted a PG-13 rating . . .for sound commercial reasons. It had nothing to do with the abundance-based culture of the 23rd century or whatever. They were just trying to avoid an R rating, that's all.
And I didn't say that Tilly found archaic language refreshing. I said that I, as a viewer, found it refreshing to hear a Star Trek character saying "fuck" like a normal person. It felt very human and down-to-earth and, yes, not too stuffy. It was refreshing because it was new and different for Star Trek--and isn't that what we want from a new Trek show: a fresh approach that we haven't seen before?
And, yes, Star Trek is always going to keep evolving and changing with that times. So all bets should be off when it comes to future iterations of STAR TREK. If there's one thing that science fiction teaches us, it's that nothing stays the same and the future is constantly mutating into some new and strange.
STAR TREK is no exception.
I don't understand how "fucking cool" is easier to understand than, say, "fascinating" or "remarkable." Or is there something about the target audience of STD that I am missing?
If it was meant to develop Tilly's character (in the same way that McCoy's words may also characterize him as cranky but also pragmatic because of his age), then is this meant to develop the latter? Can this be connected to another thread where forum members are debating on her age?
About standards and practices, how does this apply to a subscription model? Also, for censors this can be remedied easily by overwriting the soundtrack.
About finding the use of the word refreshing, I wasn't referring to Tilly but to myself. What I said is that I hear such terms everyday. Also, I don't see how it is now to the franchise as you pointed out earlier that McCoy and others do the same. It even became a funny point in some Voyage Home scenes.
Finally, your last point is partly right. The ultimate goal of franchise owners is to maximize profits, and if that means more changes for future shows, then that is what they'll do. I don't think it has anything to do with learning from science fiction or the new or strange. Rather, it is to make the new or strange familiar.
We can't really predict how language will change over the next few centuries. It is rather implausible that people will be speaking exactly the way they do today. But make up some words, and it runs the risk of sounding awkward and silly.
But I think I will start using Shakespearean colloquialisms in my daily life so that people will find it refreshing.
BTW, multi-quote is your friend.
Kor
We can see how it worked the past few centuries.
Then I'm confused.
Yes. Yes there is. It's remarkably fascinating.
If anyone wishes to know how people will speak in the distant future, there's a documentary available that is actually from the future. The title is Idiocracy.
"Fascinating" and "remarkable" are both good words. So Is "fucking cool." Not sure why you're assuming that the former is somehow preferable to the other, or that the latter implies something negative about the target audience. It's not a matter of comprehension. Of course viewers know what "fascinating" means, just like they know that "fucking cool" is another way people can express excitement. But not everybody uses the same expressions every time, nor should every character speak the same way. You're right that Spock or Seven of Nine would probably not say "fucking cool," but apparently Tilly does sometimes.
Which is great. Different characters should have different speech patterns. Spock should not sound like McCoy. Worf should not sound like Picard. The EMH should not talk like Seven of Nine. That's what makes them individuals and distinct from other.
Finally, you seem to be implying that any changes to STAR TREK will only be done for cynical commercial reason "to maximize profits" as opposed to, say, trying something new artistically to keep a fifty-plus-year-old franchise fresh and interesting. Crazy idea, but maybe they added "fuck" to the dialogue because they thought it worked in the scene, in order to make the characters more down-to-earth and believable? Which, to be clear, is NOT the same thing as dumbing them down. It's just about writing them as quirky, interesting human beings (and aliens) with various different ways of expressing themselves. Just like in real life.
You also seem to be taking for granted that "fascinating" is always preferable to "fucking cool" because--I don't know--it's somehow more intellectual or cultured or elevated or whatever. But good dialogue is whatever gets the point across. Sometimes "fucking cool" works just as well as "remarkable." And vice versa.
In short, "bad language" is not by definition bad. It's just language.
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Well, grammar can. And ideas expressed using language.
I thought Tilly's expression was well cultured. Maybe a tad snobbish for Trek.
Just watched Ep 5.
I know I know.
It was freakin adorable.
I know I know.
It was freakin adorable.
That should be included in the Trek timeline, then. LOL.
My guess is that her choice of words would be based on how her peers speak or something she gathered from a hobby (like watching centuries-old movies and TV shows). As the term is hardly used in any of the shows and movies, and Tilly uses it only once throughout several episodes, then one can only guess that her choice is influenced by the latter. Perhaps the same might apply to Stamets. Of course, they could have made the scene funnier:
Tilly: This is so fucking cool!
Stamets: No, cadet, it is not fucking cool. It's soooooooo fuckeen cooooooool.
About different speech patterns, that argument should apply to Tilly if we start seeing her engaging in such throughout several episodes, or maybe even at the start when she meets Michael for the same time. For example, "I'm like, soooo allergic to polyester, y'know." Or something similar to a high rising terminal. Then again, she's probably only imitating a character she's watching from a centuries-old movie.
Concerning the use of not just profanity but contemporary profanity to make a show down-to-earth, I find nothing refreshing or special about that. That's because I see the same thing in many TV shows and movies, not to mention my neighbors. At the very least, if profanity has to be used, then I'd like to see something hardly used and hopefully even witty. Maybe anything down-to-earth can be reserved for scenes involving extreme emotions.
In any event, not only did that term not work for the scene, but the scene itself looked sophomoric.
I feel like we're talking past each other at this point. One more time:
1) We've never heard "fuck" on STAR TREK before simply because the writers were never allowed to use it before. It's not a continuity issue; it's a censorship issue. But the rules have changed, so . . voila. They can say "fuck" now. That's all the explanation we need because we all know that's the real explanation.
2) It's refreshing for STAR TREK. Sure, you can hear "fuck" elsewhere, but it's new and different for STAR TREK. That's what I was saying.
I remember when I went to the cinema to see Insurrection the whole audience sniggered like school girls when Riker said "We're through running from these bastards".
I'll do it in three. She's fucking cool.
Back in 1984
TSFS: "You Klingon bastards!"
Irritable fan: "How DARE the writers decide to include foul language in my Star Trek?! The show never needed that. That show was above such filth! Leonard Nimoy and Harve Bennett are just trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. SELL OUTS! That's what they are!"
TSFS: "You Klingon bastards!"
Irritable fan: "How DARE the writers decide to include foul language in my Star Trek?! The show never needed that. That show was above such filth! Leonard Nimoy and Harve Bennett are just trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. SELL OUTS! That's what they are!"
