Babylon 5

[Boris Skrbic]

According to the B5 wiki:

It's unclear of which of the three castes Lavell is a member. It is said that he is of Chudomo (a religious clan) though when he attacks Sheridan he's wearing the garb of a Minbari warrior. It's likely that he was simply wearing a warrior's uniform as part of the ruse to provoke Sheridan, though it's never directly addressed in dialogue.
​

JMS was saying as late as 1997 that a clan is part of a caste:

Yes, Mir is [Delenn’s] family; you are generally born into a caste unless you at some point decide that the calling of your heart is elsewhere, at which point you enter training for that other caste (with the permission of your caste leaders) until such time as it's finalized that that's what you want, at which time you're assigned to a clan within that caste. If you choose to stay in the caste you're born into, you automatically are in your familiy's [sic] clan.​

Also here:

Lennier is religious caste; and all members of a given clan belong to one caste.

There are, for instance, no religious caste members of the Star Riders (military caste) clan.

​

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't think asking viewers to accept Minbari organize on both the caste level and the family level is too much. That's the sort of thinking that gives the audience so little credit that we have to veto ships not being oriented the same way in 3d space. It's the same way that two humans being related is different from them both being working class.

 

[matthunter]

As for how Delenn assuming hybrid form creates a bridge between their worlds, well yes - there IS more to be revealed. Quite a lot more.

 

[DonIago]

I don't think asking viewers to accept Minbari organize on both the caste level and the family level is too much. That's the sort of thinking that gives the audience so little credit that we have to veto ships not being oriented the same way in 3d space. It's the same way that two humans being related is different from them both being working class.

Alright, but when else are the clans relevant?

Also, families seem to be families in the conventional sense, not associated with clans or castes.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Alright, but when else are the clans relevant?

Also, families seem to be families in the conventional sense, not associated with clans or castes.

What are clans traditionally but big extended families?

My point is not every thing mentioned in a show needs to be a major plot point, it can just be world building. You can throw it out there and have it make the world more interesting without circling back on it and making it crucial.

 

[DonIago]

I'm not disagreeing with that, but I also think that you shouldn't bring up this kind of world-building if you're not going to do anything useful with it, and I'm not the only one who found the addition of clans on top of castes a bit pointless and confusing, realism notwithstanding.

 

[dupersuper]

I'd have said Harvey 'Two-Face' Dent on 'Batman the Animated Series' was his more prominent nerd credit, but that's just me...who has no idea what 'Night Court' is.

You have such a journey ahead of you! I'd advise just skipping the last season though.

The past nuking of San Diego is a running thing in jms writing, in Captain Power before B5.

Bad comicon experience?

I'm inclined to say Harry's loss was our gain.

I'd say it was a win/win. I'm not sure I'd call getting the lead in a long running sitcom a loss.

 

[Reverend]

You have such a journey ahead of you! I'd advise just skipping the last season though.

I'm not anywhere near into sitcoms enough to go down that rabbit hole.

 

[dupersuper]

I'm not anywhere near into sitcoms enough to go down that rabbit hole.

But you'll love it down the rabbit hole. We're all mad here...

 

[Forbin]

-"We're not some deep space franchise!" Shot at a certain other group of star-set series?

Without a doubt, yes!

 

[DonIago]

I have to admit while moments like that could be funny, they also came across as a little mean-spirited and petty on JMS's part.

 

[David cgc]

Alright, but when else are the clans relevant?

I think this might be the last time. It came up a few times in season one, that the Star-Riders were borderline renegades, having sheltered Deathwalker and, IIRC, sent the assassin to kill Kosh and frame Sinclair.

Bad comicon experience?

He lived there when he was a teenager, but the specific bone he had to pick with the city was that the was once beaten half to death in an apparent gang initiation while walking down the street when he was 21. He drew on that experience a couple times in B5, such as after Garibaldi got shot in the season one finale.

I have to admit while moments like that could be funny, they also came across as a little mean-spirited and petty on JMS's part.

Peter David actually wrote that line, and fully expected JMS to edit it out when he did his pass on the script.

 

[DonIago]

Fair enough, though JMS could have edited it out and either wasn't aware of it or chose not to. I wonder whether this was during a time when David was irked with the Trek folks then.

 

[Jan]

Fair enough, though JMS could have edited it out and either wasn't aware of it or chose not to. I wonder whether this was during a time when David was irked with the Trek folks then.

He was aware of it and when PAD said he expected it to be edited out, he said he thought it was fall-down funny. All I can gather from PAD's introduction to the episode in the script books is that they both like childish humor.

That notion combined in my head with the earlier concept of a gift shop.
I had Ivanova, upon learning of the intrusion of merchandising into the station,
protest to Sheridan, “We’re not some…some deep space franchise! This station
is about something!” I was positive Joe would cut the line rather than stoop to
such a painfully cheap shot.

I should have known better. Joe loved the line. I think he would have
filmed the whole episode just so he could get that line on the air.

 

[JD]

Going by his Trek books, saying that Peter David likes childish humor would be a bit of an understatement. Sometimes it's funny, but sometimes it's not.

 

[Forbin]

And that time it was.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

To me, a glaring omission in B5 seems to be AI technology. Nanotechnology also appears to be somewhat underdeveloped by most races, including humans. Both the Shadows and Vorlons appear to be prosthetically augmented organic creatures but I don't recall seeing the depiction of completely synthetic beings. There was Garibaldi's run-in with an annoying computer system but it was more a joke than a plot point. Whatever happened to AI in this 23rd century? Some of the aliens we see might well be based on AI-controlled nanotech but we are not told this. Perhaps any distinction between evolved and engineered organisms is not considered noteworthy by this time period. Or perhaps my memory is failing me.

 

[matthunter]

AIs might cotton onto/want no part of the big cycle of events. And they'd be immune to one of the major weapons deployed as part of that plan.... Thus I imagine they are quietly disposed of if they ever pop up.

 

[Jan]

Nanotechnology also appears to be somewhat underdeveloped by most races, including humans.

We were probably about to see a lot more about nanotechnology in Crusade based on what we saw in "The Memory of War".

 

[JirinPanthosa]

There was that guy with the hat Kosh used to scare Talya. I forget the details but he had augments.

I wonder if they avoided AI for fear of being too close to Data.