Babylon 5

[Asbo Zaprudder]

There was that guy with the hat Kosh used to scare Talya. I forget the details but he had augments.

That was Abbut the ViCaR (or Vicar or Vicker, I'm not sure) - a cyberorganic recorder. Of course, the actress playing Talia left so nothing really became of that thread. Other loose threads included Bureau 13, which I guess was too similar to Section 31 on DS9.

We were probably about to see a lot more about nanotechnology in Crusade based on what we saw in "The Memory of War".

Yeah, I think the Drakh virus was meant to be some sort of highly adaptable, distributed computing entity based on nanotech, as you state. Not sure if it had any higher gestalt-like intelligence though.

AIs might cotton onto/want no part of the big cycle of events. And they'd be immune to one of the major weapons deployed as part of that plan.... Thus I imagine they are quietly disposed of if they ever pop up.

That would have been an interesting element for the B5 universe - was AI just as taboo to the elder races as to humans in the Dune books? The irritating computer interacting with Garibaldi was definitely not intelligent.

 

[diankra]

We were probably about to see a lot more about nanotechnology in Crusade based on what we saw in "The Memory of War".

IIRC the techomages get their abilities from Shadow AI nanotechnology. Never stated onscreen, but intended and made clear in the books.

 

[Kraig]

That was Abbut the ViCaR (or Vicar or Vicker, I'm not sure) - a cyberorganic recorder. Of course, the actress playing Talia left so nothing really became of that thread. Other loose threads included Bureau 13, which I guess was too similar to Section 31 on DS9.

There was a Bureau 13 RPG that sued Babylon 5 for using the name Bureau 13. The show agreed to stop using the name in the series.

To me, a glaring omission in B5 seems to be AI technology. Nanotechnology also appears to be somewhat underdeveloped by most races, including humans. Both the Shadows and Vorlons appear to be prosthetically augmented organic creatures but I don't recall seeing the depiction of completely synthetic beings. There was Garibaldi's run-in with an annoying computer system but it was more a joke than a plot point. Whatever happened to AI in this 23rd century? Some of the aliens we see might well be based on AI-controlled nanotech but we are not told this. Perhaps any distinction between evolved and engineered organisms is not considered noteworthy by this time period. Or perhaps my memory is failing me.

Mostly the Vorlons, Shadows and their agents used biotech style AI.

Spoiler: AI and biotech used in the show

The shadows used an "eye" to control ships crews when they enter their system. Lennier prevented a White star from being taken over through the use of a "dead man" switch. When he didn't press the switch in a specific time period, the ship automatically jumped to hyperspace and left the system. The Drakh used keepers on Captain Jack, The Centauri Regent and eventually Londo to that could hide from view, control and spy for them.

The Drakh used AI on Centauri ships in season 5 in place of crews when attacking the other races.

The Vorlons seemed to prefer using biotechnology to build living ships and adjusting species to create telepaths.

Then the Shadows got some "blips" from the PsiCorp to use as operating systems for their ships to replace the non-telepaths in their ships.

 

[matthunter]

A deadman switch is about as far from AI as you can get.

WHILE "pressed in time?" = YES:
>>>>>DON'T JUMP
JUMP

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

A deadman switch is about as far from AI as you can get.

Pretty much the same level of intelligence as a nematode.

 

[Kraig]

A deadman switch is about as far from AI as you can get.

WHILE "pressed in time?" = YES:
>>>>>DON'T JUMP
JUMP

Spoiler: eye

The deadman switch isn't the AI, but the "eye" is. The "eye" appears as a disembodied shadow head on screen, but as a dead relative or loved one to each member of the crew. The deadman switch is the only thing that allowed crew, and the Whitestar to escape the Shadow AI. The fancy Shadow AI was defeated by a simple deadman switch.

 

[Jan]

There was a Bureau 13 RPG that sued Babylon 5 for using the name Bureau 13. The show agreed to stop using the name in the series.

No lawsuit. Per JMS:

We hadn't heard of the Bureau 13 game when we did the
episode, it was just something we came up with 'cause it sounded neat. Later,
we found out there was a game by that name. At which point I decided that it
wouldn't be appropriate to use that name again, and had a good conversation
with some folks at the game company about it. There was no problem, I just
didn't want to walk on their turf intentionally or otherwise.

 

[Kraig]

No lawsuit. Per JMS:

Sorry, I should have said the RPG sent a letter about the use of the name 'Bureau 13' to B-5 and they agreed to stop using the name to avoid a lawsuit.

From Larry DiTillio the Writer's Q&A section of Vol 2 of "Babylon 5 Other Voices:

"Did the departure of Andrea Thompson from the show derail plans for a renamed 'Bureau 13'?

Nope. 'Bureau 13' was the name of an organization in a role-playing game called 'Stalking the Night Fantastic' that was on the market at the time. Though I did play role-playing games I never actually bought or read the game but I liked the sound of Bureau 13. Unhappily the company that published the game sent a letter claiming I had stolen the entire concept of the script from the game. This was totally untrue of course, but you don't want to deal with litigious idiots when you're trying to d a television show and so Joe simply told them he would never use the name again. Of course, it is made fairly clear in the script that Bureau 13 could also have other names as well.

Was Bureau 13 originally meant to be a regularly seen organization like the Psi Corps?

I certainly meant to re-visit this organization in later episodes but sadly it never happened."

 

[Caretaker]

I've finally been watching The Expanse and I keep thinking, "What if a Babylon 5 continuation/reboot had this type of visual effects budget?"

 

[BlueStuff]

"And Now For a Word"

While I appreciate the willingness to experiment, at times I thought the news-format threatened to get in the way of the story. Given that the events unfolding are possibly the most important of the new Narn-Centauri conflict since it began, I felt that the framing often detracted from the potential dramatic weight of what was going on. Explosive set-pieces were bookended by a journalist wandering around the station commenting in a detached manner and striking up conversations with the likes of "I've-a-nova." It made the whole thing seem rather ordinary - though the journalist makes a point that the footage in no way depicts a usual day in the life of B5, that's essentially how it feels. I think the lack of the usual music contributed to this feeling.

One positive about the structure was the chance to get some focused character examinations during the interviews. Even if these were just public personas they were putting on for the media, it was good to get some thoughts about the war, B5, and their general standing in life in a way that makes more sense than the random speeches characters sometimes tend to launch into in other episodes.

I also enjoyed Sheridan's doubts that Earth is in any position to hold its own in a conflict against the other races, compared to the somewhat more delusional opinions of the journalist and the smarmy Senator Quantrell.

Rating: ***

-Based on numerous sources, I'll be eschewing the original airing order and watching "Knives" next, followed by "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum." Makes sense?

 

[Boris Skrbic]

-Based on numerous sources, I'll be eschewing the original airing order and watching "Knives" next, followed by "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum." Makes sense?

JMS says so, but don’t click (or tap) unless you’ve already seen the episodes.

 

[Farscape One]

Yes, I think "KNIVES" works better before "IN THE SHADOW OF Z'HA'DUM".

By the way, I may not have said much, but I am truly enjoying your reviews of B5.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I've finally been watching The Expanse and I keep thinking, "What if a Babylon 5 continuation/reboot had this type of visual effects budget?"

The sets in B5 have dated badly and the décor often has the appearance of a shabby 90's motel. If you look carefully, you can see nail heads holding the set together and wood grain, both showing through the paint. There are a few small, thin (but not that thin) LCD screens but most displays are obviously cathode-ray tubes. Stanley Kubrick managed to avoid this antiquated look (with a few exceptions) on 2001 by using back projection but I expect that didn't come cheap. 90's Star Trek LCARS displays and PADDs still look great IMO.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

90's Star Trek LCARS displays and PADDs still look great IMO.

The devices don’t look entirely clean or well-maintained in HD. (Watching “The Battle”, I was wondering why Picard doesn’t simply throw his scuffy ready-room console into the replicator.)

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

The devices don’t look entirely clean or well-maintained in HD. (Watching “The Battle”, I was wondering why Picard doesn’t simply throw his scuffy ready-room console into the replicator.)

Heh, remastering a show in HD when its sets were never intended to be seen at that resolution will do that I guess.

 

[Forbin]

Explosive set-pieces were bookended by a journalist wandering around the station commenting in a detached manner and striking up conversations with the likes of "I've-a-nova."

You mean the "perky" commander of C-and-C?
I love the face Claudia made at that line.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

I've finally been watching The Expanse and I keep thinking, "What if a Babylon 5 continuation/reboot had this type of visual effects budget?"

I kept thinking The Expanse belongs in the 90s despite its VFX budget (though I noticed a somewhat less expansive feel in the Amazon seasons). There are some interesting concepts but also far too many well-honed tropes.

 

[Kraig]

"And Now For a Word"

While I appreciate the willingness to experiment, at times I thought the news-format threatened to get in the way of the story. Given that the events unfolding are possibly the most important of the new Narn-Centauri conflict since it began, I felt that the framing often detracted from the potential dramatic weight of what was going on. Explosive set-pieces were bookended by a journalist wandering around the station commenting in a detached manner and striking up conversations with the likes of "I've-a-nova." It made the whole thing seem rather ordinary - though the journalist makes a point that the footage in no way depicts a usual day in the life of B5, that's essentially how it feels. I think the lack of the usual music contributed to this feeling.

One positive about the structure was the chance to get some focused character examinations during the interviews. Even if these were just public personas they were putting on for the media, it was good to get some thoughts about the war, B5, and their general standing in life in a way that makes more sense than the random speeches characters sometimes tend to launch into in other episodes.

I also enjoyed Sheridan's doubts that Earth is in any position to hold its own in a conflict against the other races, compared to the somewhat more delusional opinions of the journalist and the smarmy Senator Quantrell.

Rating: ***

-Based on numerous sources, I'll be eschewing the original airing order and watching "Knives" next, followed by "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum." Makes sense?

After President Clark's Ministry for Information subliminal ad on ISN, do you trust the Psi Corps even more?

 

[BlueStuff]

Yes, I think "KNIVES" works better before "IN THE SHADOW OF Z'HA'DUM".

By the way, I may not have said much, but I am truly enjoying your reviews of B5.

Thank you, glad to hear that.

Hopefully I'll be posting the reviews a little more regularly from now on.

 

[Reverend]

Sorry, I should have said the RPG sent a letter about the use of the name 'Bureau 13' to B-5 and they agreed to stop using the name to avoid a lawsuit.

From Larry DiTillio the Writer's Q&A section of Vol 2 of "Babylon 5 Other Voices:

"Did the departure of Andrea Thompson from the show derail plans for a renamed 'Bureau 13'?

Nope. 'Bureau 13' was the name of an organization in a role-playing game called 'Stalking the Night Fantastic' that was on the market at the time. Though I did play role-playing games I never actually bought or read the game but I liked the sound of Bureau 13. Unhappily the company that published the game sent a letter claiming I had stolen the entire concept of the script from the game. This was totally untrue of course, but you don't want to deal with litigious idiots when you're trying to d a television show and so Joe simply told them he would never use the name again. Of course, it is made fairly clear in the script that Bureau 13 could also have other names as well.

Was Bureau 13 originally meant to be a regularly seen organization like the Psi Corps?

I certainly meant to re-visit this organization in later episodes but sadly it never happened."

I won't go into details here because we have a first time watcher, but while they never used the name again, you can clearly tell when that particular group is up to shenanigans later on down the line. Pretty much anything shady involving Earth, telepaths and advanced tech (human or otherwise) is most likely them.

Personally I think that it works better if this shady cabal doesn't have a particular name, because that's not how massive conspiracies work. Not advertising the fact you exist is kind of the whole point, and I always roll my eyes in fiction whenever there's a secret organization with an actual logo and other trappings. Real military-industrial-mega-corp type conspiracies don't operate like Bond villains with volcano lairs, uniformed henchmen and tanks full of laser sharks. They're an assemblage of informal agreements held together by common goals and enforced by mutually assured destruction leverage, and they're in constant flux since it's hard to keep such things going over more than a generation.

With that in mind I prefer to think of Bureau 13 not as a real entity, but one of many many code names for a line item on the black budget that allows them to syphon funds for whatever they may be up to. All that said, IIRC the Psi Corps books make mention of a Department Sigma, which is either the same group by a different name, or just the faction within that group that operates inside the Corps.