Babylon 5

[DonIago]

I not only could see it being a DS9 story but am pretty sure I read an early DS9 novel that copied that story almost beat-for-beat, though used it as a B-story. I think they may have even used a holosuite to scare the parents. Was it in "The Siege"?

It was!!! Novel by Peter David!

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Siege

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

What about when humans make contact with alien life and they determine that we're the nutjobs? For instance, by determining that our population growth is unsustainable, so they decide to "help" us?

Good point.

 

[Forbin]

I'm generally fine with religion. People will generally believe what then want to believe, and to try and reason with a zealot is futile. My problem is usually when religion gets to be organised religion. Then it typically becomes metastasised, parasitic, and unworthy of respect, cultural differences or no....but that's a whole other discussion.

I totally agree. In fact I usually say "organized religion," but lately I've been getting sick of the whole mess.

 

[Reverend]

Incidentally, the writer of 'Belivers' was David Gerrold who also wrote a few episodes of classic Trek (perhaps most notably: 'The Trouble with Tribbles') so the similarities and deliberate divergence from the Trek style probably isn't a coincidence.

 

[DonIago]

Any idea whether Gerrold wrote other B5 episodes? I'm guessing not given...well, B5, but can't hurt to ask.

 

[Mysterion]

Any idea whether Gerrold wrote other B5 episodes? I'm guessing not given...well, B5, but can't hurt to ask.

IIRC, Gerrold only wrote that one episode of B5.

 

[Reverend]

^Yup, while Peter David on the other hand wrote two, plus one for Crusade and three or four tie-in books...

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Any idea whether Gerrold wrote other B5 episodes? I'm guessing not given...well, B5, but can't hurt to ask.

IIRC, Gerrold only wrote that one episode of B5.

Gerrold did pitch another episode, "Laser, Mirror, Starweb," which was turned into an two-parter of the DC Comics Babylon 5 comic (issues 9 and 10).

 

[DonIago]

Ah, I heard about that comic, but I can't recall whether I heard it was any good.

 

[Sci]

When it comes to Babylon 5, "In the Beginning" is probably the best starting place for new viewers in spite of it being super-spoilery, but it and the other TV movies - including The Gathering - are hard to find.

It's also kind of a pain to watch the entire series in the most optimal order* using the DVDs because there are several deviations from how the episodes are presented.

* Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5

My jumping-on point was "And Now For A Word," and I still think that's the best possible entry point. Lots of exposition about the various races, everyone gets a nice little monologue (that's actually justified by the framing device for once), an exciting story going on, and a meta framing device that makes it clear what kind of show it is. Love it.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Ah, I heard about that comic, but I can't recall whether I heard it was any good.

It's meh. But then again, I'm not a big fan of David Gerrold's writing.

 

[DonIago]

While writing my prior post I was thinking about saying that some of his stuff has worked better for me than others. I have an anthology of his and IIRC that's the impression I walked away with.

Like, I'm not sure the episode of TNG he wanted to do with gay characters was necessarily the best or most TNG of ideas, but his heart was obviously in the right place, TNG damn well could have used an episode like that, and just because his idea might not have worked as-written didn't mean it couldn't be shaped into something that could have worked well.

 

[David cgc]

Ah, I heard about that comic, but I can't recall whether I heard it was any good.

It's not. I'd rate it the worst of the B5 comics by a wide margin. It honestly feels a lot like the majority of the first batch of numbered Babylon 5 novels, where the stories seemed to be based more on a loose premise and description of the show and characters, rather than what it actually was. The other comics generally felt more like they could've been episodes of the show as we know it.

 

[Jan]

Incidentally, the writer of 'Belivers' was David Gerrold who also wrote a few episodes of classic Trek (perhaps most notably: 'The Trouble with Tribbles') so the similarities and deliberate divergence from the Trek style probably isn't a coincidence.

Another thing of note is that one reason why JMS assigned this story to him was that Gerrold had just adopted a son.

I liked the episode. It wasn't intended to have any easy answers. That pegged B5 as a show willing to take chances (for that time, of course).

 

[Timby]

Incidentally, the writer of 'Belivers' was David Gerrold who also wrote a few episodes of classic Trek (perhaps most notably: 'The Trouble with Tribbles') so the similarities and deliberate divergence from the Trek style probably isn't a coincidence.

Gerrold also wrote so much of the initial writers' bible for TNG that he could (and should) have gotten a "co-created by" credit, and there was a lot of messiness between him / the WGA and Gene Roddenberry as a result.

 

[Harvey]

I not only could see it being a DS9 story but am pretty sure I read an early DS9 novel that copied that story almost beat-for-beat, though used it as a B-story. I think they may have even used a holosuite to scare the parents. Was it in "The Siege"?

It was!!! Novel by Peter David!

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Siege

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine #2: The Siege was first published on May 1, 1993.

The Babylon 5 episode "Believers" was first aired April 27, 1994. It looks like Gerrold turned in his outline for the episode the week of July 18, 1993, based on this post and the Lurker's Guide entry.

I'm not accusing either story of copying the other, but the DS9 novel simply couldn't have copied the episode penned by David Gerrold, since Peter David's book was published two months before Gerrold even started work on the outline for the episode (and presumably Peter David's book was in work several months before that).

Gerrold also wrote so much of the initial writers' bible for TNG that he could (and should) have gotten a "co-created by" credit, and there was a lot of messiness between him / the WGA and Gene Roddenberry as a result.

Gerrold's agent made that claim, and Gerrold says he didn't agree with it: "My agent made the claim for co-creator credit, not me. And he did so without my knowledge. The Guild looked over the matter and said that Gene's rights to the created by credit were protected because the show was a spinoff of Star Trek. I never argued with that because I never wanted to take anything away from Gene. I only wanted to be fairly paid for writing the bible and doing additional producer-level work."

(There was a settlement with Paramount over Gerrold's other claims, which had merit and the studio wanted to go away, quickly.)

 

[Maurice]

Yeah writing a show bible that builds largely on existing series format for which the program is a direct sequel isn't treated by the WGA the same way as a new show. The Star Trek format was 23 years old by the time TNG's show bible was being written, and is basically identical. From a writing standpoint all that really changed was the characters.

 

[Reverend]

And IIRC the TNG bible's Do's & Don'ts section for script writers, it specifically says the crew are NOT the galaxy police, there to spread "Euro-American cultural values" to alien worlds. Kind of apropos if that was indeed written by the same author as 'Belivers', no?

 

[Guy Gardener]

All these Minbari keep showing up at the best and worst moments through out season one 2.

Shal mayan
Drall
Kaylen
More..

Have the been getting thousand year old letters from valen?

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Finished season one a couple days ago and started season two. Sheridan seems like a nice guy. I’m really liking Lennier. Can’t wait to see Delenn emerge from her chrysalis.