Babylon 5 viewing order

[shivkala]

I got into Babylon 5 at the tail end of the first season and followed it off and on through the second. But the moment I saw the season 3 opener, I made it my mission to watch all of it (a decision that would prove costly, as I had to have all of the DVD season sets, as well!). Most title sequences just give you the basics, if that, of the show, how many grab you and make you want to know more? The decision to change the credits every season really paid off and, while I love the 3rd season credits for the impact they had on me, the style of the 4th season is amazing, and the 5th season just gives me chills every time I hear it.

Season 3 started on a strong note, but holy hell, prepare yourself for what's coming. The first few episodes soften you up and man, about a 1/4 of the way through the season, they'll knock you the hell out. Sorry if I'm over-hyping things, but, if I were you, I'd set aside a day to watch episodes 8 through 11 in one sitting. In a brilliant move, episode 12 is a nice cleanser, because the four episodes directly preceding it are damn heavy and you really see what certain things have been building towards.

 

[Distorted Humor]

Well watched a couple more episodes.....

Convictions - Not that great of a episode, though the B-plot conversations in the elevator was a riot. The mad bomber was poorly acted and it felt like a bad episode of Criminal Minds.

A day in the Strife - Not as weak as convictions, but it kinda reminded me of a DS9 episode (Egads!) It was nice to see the fellow captive Narn and he standing up to the issues. Our doctor needs to go to a 12 step program...poor guy.

Passing though Gethsemane - Now THIS is a great episode. I figured that the monk was a former mind-wipe (which might be just me, but that is a horrific punishment.) But seeing the new monk was a shocker. Wonder if that was the payoff on the monks, or if there more to them. No idea what the newly good looking Lyta is up to.

Voices of Authority - Well first off, was that Morden that was talking to president Clark? And a political officer, even a cute one, Gaaaa !! This was one of those episodes where the plot is extended another couple of yards, so I will take a break so I can process it before continuing.

Also I like how it seems like they spent more money (or kept investing the money wisely) so that the quality keeps improving, first season looks "cheap" 2nd season looked "shoestring" and now its doesn't phase you...

 

[JoeD80]

Not that great of a episode, though the B-plot conversations in the elevator was a riot.

My favorite part of that episode too - setting up these two in a situation where they might have to work together; and then turning that around by having G'Kar utterly refuse to help.

Voices of Authority - Well first off, was that Morden that was talking to president Clark?

It was definitely Morden.

Also I like how it seems like they spent more money (or kept investing the money wisely) so that the quality keeps improving

Making sure the money was spent in the right places.

 

[Snatcher42]

Shouldn't be too much of a surprise that it was Morden after his appearance on Earth at the end of Matters of Honor, no?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think B5's budget changed until the 5th season (when it was slightly reduced). The production just got more and more efficient, and CG technology was advancing daily. As I've said before, I'm still blown away by some of the things they accomplish in season 4.

Interesting story about Passing though Gethsemane: It was originally planned as a second season episode, but had to be put on hold when a fan posted pretty much the same story idea on a message board JMS frequented. He had to make sure to get legal clearance from the fan before proceeding.

This was one of those episodes where the plot is extended another couple of yards, so I will take a break so I can process it before continuing.

Methinks you'll be having to take a lot of breaks soon!

 

[Distorted Humor]

My favorite part of that episode too - setting up these two in a situation where they might have to work together; and then turning that around by having G'Kar utterly refuse to help.

Indeed, and i was in stitches with Londo going "Hello Can anyone hear me" then G'Kar going "I can year you". Nice clean and hilarious humor.

Shouldn't be too much of a surprise that it was Morden after his appearance on Earth at the end of Matters of Honor, no?

Not a surprise, but I just wanted to make sure it was Morden, and not someone else like Bester

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think B5's budget changed until the 5th season (when it was slightly reduced). The production just got more and more efficient, and CG technology was advancing daily. As I've said before, I'm still blown away by some of the things they accomplish in season 4.

Well, I can see a marked improvement in the CGI (which in that era was growing leaps and bounds) and even the production values seem to be increasing. Just seems to the eye that they have more money or at least are wisely investing.

Interesting story about Passing though Gethsemane: It was originally planned as a second season episode, but had to be put on hold when a fan posted pretty much the same story idea on a message board JMS frequented. He had to make sure to get legal clearance from the fan before proceeding.

Cool, well it is a logical continuation of the mind wipe idea. Brad Dourf<sp> was excellent, and it was nice to see religion handled with some genuineness from someone (JMS) who is avowedly not religious at all. [RANT] I guess that is a pet peeve of mine (As someone who was agnostic who converted into a faith as a adult covert and is now very religious) that sometimes those who are atheistic are so militantly atheistic that they become more closed minded then the worst religious kook. [/RANT] JMS still at least gives it some respect to be a member of a faith, even if he has no interest in it.

Methinks you'll be having to take a lot of breaks soon!

That, and it was 10 PM and I have to work. Prepping myself that the plot is about to open a jump gate and go into Hyperspace

 

[Reverend]

[RANT] I guess that is a pet peeve of mine (As someone who was agnostic who converted into a faith as a adult covert and is now very religious) that sometimes those who are atheistic are so militantly atheistic that they become more closed minded then the worst religious kook. [/RANT] JMS still at least gives it some respect to be a member of a faith, even if he has no interest in it.

Well to be fair, the devoutly religious are often just as guilty in denigrating an atheistic point of view, to say nothing of *other* religions. Often to the point of wilful ignorance. Of course the truth of it is most people are neither devoutly religious nor militant atheists and don't spend a lot of energy on religious in their daily lives.

But yes, it is nice to see an non-religious writer take an apparantly unbiased, objective, well informed view on religions and indeed on the idea of faith in general. I won't spoil it but there's an interesting summation on the relationship between faith and reason in a late season 4 episode that I've always rather liked. You'll know it when you hear it.

Aside from the portrayal of real world Earth religions, I think it's also interesting how each of the major races were given very specific and even diverse religious cultural identities. Granted, there wasn't much opportunity to explore them in anything approaching detail but it was nice that mention was made of more than one Narn faith.

 

[Distorted Humor]

I fully admit that there is religious idiots running around. They exist on the "Scary channel" (What my family always jokes about the Inspirational network or whatever its called that is 24/7 televangelists.) and in life. Just nice to see a decent take on faith by someone who is not religious.

And yes, it is nice to see Aliens as not mono-cultures, but they have unique cultures that carry over a range. The one race with a uniform religion in B5 also has a lot of other things that are uniform, so you kinda expect it.

 

[Snatcher42]

Just nice to see a decent take on faith by someone who is not religious.

I think JMS' declared atheism is a bit way to sidestep an issue that's a little more complex for him. He's mentioned writing a document detailing his personal philosophy of "foundationism" - Dr. Franklin's "religion" on B5 - but hasn't published it for fear of being L. Ron Hubbard-ed. But yes, I agree, I think his treatment of religion on B5 is one of the best on television.

 

[Sindatur]

My favorite part of that episode too - setting up these two in a situation where they might have to work together; and then turning that around by having G'Kar utterly refuse to help.

Indeed, and i was in stitches with Londo going "Hello Can anyone hear me" then G'Kar going "I can year you". Nice clean and hilarious humor.

Shouldn't be too much of a surprise that it was Morden after his appearance on Earth at the end of Matters of Honor, no?

Not a surprise, but I just wanted to make sure it was Morden, and not someone else like Bester

Well, I can see a marked improvement in the CGI (which in that era was growing leaps and bounds) and even the production values seem to be increasing. Just seems to the eye that they have more money or at least are wisely investing.

Interesting story about Passing though Gethsemane: It was originally planned as a second season episode, but had to be put on hold when a fan posted pretty much the same story idea on a message board JMS frequented. He had to make sure to get legal clearance from the fan before proceeding.

Cool, well it is a logical continuation of the mind wipe idea. Brad Dourf<sp> was excellent, and it was nice to see religion handled with some genuineness from someone (JMS) who is avowedly not religious at all. [RANT] I guess that is a pet peeve of mine (As someone who was agnostic who converted into a faith as a adult covert and is now very religious) that sometimes those who are atheistic are so militantly atheistic that they become more closed minded then the worst religious kook. [/RANT] JMS still at least gives it some respect to be a member of a faith, even if he has no interest in it.

Methinks you'll be having to take a lot of breaks soon!

That, and it was 10 PM and I have to work. Prepping myself that the plot is about to open a jump gate and go into Hyperspace

Another thing that helped money-wise, is they had accumulated many set pieces by this time. Those cost money, so, until they were all built up, they were taking portions of the budget to be built. once built, the money would go further, since it no longer needed to be used on the basic sets

 

[Jan]

Just nice to see a decent take on faith by someone who is not religious.

I think JMS' declared atheism is a bit way to sidestep an issue that's a little more complex for him. He's mentioned writing a document detailing his personal philosophy of "foundationism" - Dr. Franklin's "religion" on B5 - but hasn't published it for fear of being L. Ron Hubbard-ed. But yes, I agree, I think his treatment of religion on B5 is one of the best on television.

JMS did have a religious connection at one point, even to living in a religious commune for a time. Here's a post where he talks about what he believes.

And here's the one bit we've been shown of the Foundation document. I think it should be required reading by any parent or prospective parent.

Jan

 

[Distorted Humor]

Just nice to see a decent take on faith by someone who is not religious.

I think JMS' declared atheism is a bit way to sidestep an issue that's a little more complex for him. He's mentioned writing a document detailing his personal philosophy of "foundationism" - Dr. Franklin's "religion" on B5 - but hasn't published it for fear of being L. Ron Hubbard-ed. But yes, I agree, I think his treatment of religion on B5 is one of the best on television.

Didn't the Doctor note that he follows "Foundationism"?

And actually, reading what he believes, he has a good chunk of what my faith is, if you remove the major concepts of God and afterlife. (As in sharing the same concept of the vastness of human potential and that we need to do stuff NOW and on 2nd chances (Though we do have the idea we can give our ancestors 2nd chances.)

 

[Snatcher42]

Didn't the Doctor note that he follows "Foundationism"?

Oops sorry, it might not have come up in the series yet. He does mention it by name, but I can't remember the episode. Hope that's not a spoiler, it's not a major part of the plot or anything!

 

[Distorted Humor]

Didn't the Doctor note that he follows "Foundationism"?

Oops sorry, it might not have come up in the series yet. He does mention it by name, but I can't remember the episode. Hope that's not a spoiler, it's not a major part of the plot or anything!

No, it was already mentioned in season 2, forget the episode, but it a after the Narn war as it comes up as the doctor is talking about seeing too many Narn's dying as refugees from the war are filling his med-lab, and how people see god when they die.

 

[JoeD80]

Not a surprise, but I just wanted to make sure it was Morden, and not someone else like Bester

Nope, but you'll see what Bester is up to soon enough!

Just seems to the eye that they have more money or at least are wisely investing.

The budget was pretty much the same through all five years, around $800,000 - $900,000 per episode.

and it was nice to see religion handled with some genuineness

As JMS has said, it's the difference between writing from an agenda and writing honestly for what that character would be.

 

[Reverend]

Didn't the Doctor note that he follows "Foundationism"?

Yup, Franklin is a Foundationist. Actually, from comments he makes at some point (no idea when) he may have been raised as a Foundationist rather than come to it as an adult. Which seams strange to me since it'd imply his father is a Foundationist too, which feels at odds with his personality. On the other hand, since the old man was so often away perhaps mama Franklin was the religious one?

And actually, reading what he believes, he has a good chunk of what my faith is, if you remove the major concepts of God and afterlife. (As in sharing the same concept of the vastness of human potential and that we need to do stuff NOW and on 2nd chances (Though we do have the idea we can give our ancestors 2nd chances.)

Not to criticise, but I'd say that's a rather fundamental difference.
Assuming I'm reading him right he seems to think belief in an afterlife, reincarnation and other forms of post-mortem redemption and absolution are partly what holds us back. I tend to agree, if for no other reason than there's no point making a fuss over something that we're all going to find out about sooner or later. I mean if the religious people are right and they end up in heaven, then good for them, but if others that don't are correct then it's not like anyone is around to care after the fact. Either way, the only thing anyone can be sure of is that *this* world is real...probably.

Honestly, my only problem with organised religion is the organised part. Typically it becomes more about control and an almost tribal sense of belonging with a touch of enforced conformism than any genuine effort to self enlightenment. Even something as JMS's "Foundation" could easily be misused and perverted in the wrong hands.

...anyway! Enjoy the next few episodes, season 3 is a real roller coaster!

P.S. Did anyone else think the casting of Brad Dourif in 'Passing Through Gethsemane' rather spoiled the twist? I mean when has that guy ever *not* been cast as a complete nutter?

 

[timothy]

off topic here I wondering if the this series will get a repackageing for the dvd set?

 

[Sindatur]

off topic here I wondering if the this series will get a repackageing for the dvd set?

They've already put out a Complete Series box set.

Can't do HD because of technicalities with getting it onto DVD in the first place and lack of original files, so, the original box sets per season (and movie set) and the full Series Box set is proabbly about all you're gonna see.

 

[timothy]

off topic here I wondering if the this series will get a repackageing for the dvd set?

They've already put out a Complete Series box set.

Can't do HD because of technicalities with getting it onto DVD in the first place and lack of original files, so, the original box sets per season (and movie set) and the full Series Box set is proabbly about all you're gonna see.

thanks that's cool I was just curious love B5 universe.

 

[Neroon]

Didn't the Doctor note that he follows "Foundationism"?

He also called it "A bunch of mealy-mouthed self-indulgent crap" (sic).

 

[Snatcher42]

He also called it "A bunch of mealy-mouthed self-indulgent crap" (sic).

That is one of my favorite scenes, though.