Umm, Doctor Who, the classics, used cliffhnager in every episode except the final episode of a story, since 1963.
BobW was hardly revolutionary, just another evolution
"Umm"... as Jammer has said:
Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it
- Thread starter tomalak301
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"Umm"... as Jammer has said:
I do have one question: who shot J.R.?
I thought they had an agenda, but I did think they were generic evil conquerors. Z'ha'dum gave them a much needed backstory and that really helped understand who and why they are.
Reverend,
Re: Londo and Dukat,
After reading about what you wrote and thinking about it, yeah they aren't very similar. Londo was an opportunist, but it was for the good of Centauri Prime. Dukat just had a big ego. After watching The Hour of the Wolf, it was a good study on him and reminder of who he was. As for me comparing B5 to Star Trek, I think I've done well to bite my tounge with comparisons. I actually don't try to do it, but sometimes it just happens.
It really is a powerful scene if you've seen everything that came before. I'm sure if you didn't know who Refa was and you watched that episode, it would have been a very strange scene. I've heard many people say that whole scene was very creepy. I'd love to know why. I thought the intercutting of both the service and what was happening on Narn was very cool.
Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi
Much better episode than the premiere. Things are getting so philisophical now that it's almost hard to really talk about them because I'm not sure if I understand them myself. Lorien says that Sheridan must succumb to death in order the embrace life (Or so I thought). During that entire sequence, I kept going back to Sheridan's dream sequence and how he was "in between." That that mean he's in between life and death and wasn't sure what side to pick. I'm probably confusing myself, but that's pretty much my feeling when it ended. Sheridan clinging to something and refusing to let go. As for Lorien, I like him. Looking forward to seeing more stuff with him.
As for the other parts of this episode, they were good, especially Londo and G'Kar's scene. In the title sequence it says "It was the year we took back what was ours." Something tells me I know how G'Kar gets his eye cut off, putting two and two together of course.
In regards to Garibladi's very small scene, I chalk that up to we have to see him because the episode title is kind of about him.
Much better episode than the premiere. Things are getting so philisophical now that it's almost hard to really talk about them because I'm not sure if I understand them myself. Lorien says that Sheridan must succumb to death in order the embrace life (Or so I thought). During that entire sequence, I kept going back to Sheridan's dream sequence and how he was "in between." That that mean he's in between life and death and wasn't sure what side to pick. I'm probably confusing myself, but that's pretty much my feeling when it ended. Sheridan clinging to something and refusing to let go. As for Lorien, I like him. Looking forward to seeing more stuff with him.
As for the other parts of this episode, they were good, especially Londo and G'Kar's scene. In the title sequence it says "It was the year we took back what was ours." Something tells me I know how G'Kar gets his eye cut off, putting two and two together of course.
In regards to Garibladi's very small scene, I chalk that up to we have to see him because the episode title is kind of about him.
BoBW isn't really revolutionary for cliffhangers if you want a major moment where Cliffhangers became commonplace we go back a few more years before BoBW to Dallas with "Who Shot JR". Which is really much bigger than Trek's BoBW cliffhanger. And for another popular show (at the same time as TNG) we have Twin Peak's Season 1 cliffhanger which is weeks before BoBW.
Cliffhangers WERE common enough by the time BoBW aired after being popularised years earlier.
And it's not like they're new with the film serials basically all ending each episode on a cliffhanger in the 1930's, so it's not exactly a new concept.
I can't really understand people who say their favourite show is responsible for popularising something when it really isn't as there's obvious proof showing otherwise.
It's almost as annoying as LOST/24 fanboys saying their shows created serial storytelling.
Cliffhangers WERE common enough by the time BoBW aired after being popularised years earlier.
And it's not like they're new with the film serials basically all ending each episode on a cliffhanger in the 1930's, so it's not exactly a new concept.
I can't really understand people who say their favourite show is responsible for popularising something when it really isn't as there's obvious proof showing otherwise.
It's almost as annoying as LOST/24 fanboys saying their shows created serial storytelling.
Cliffhangers were of course a staple of soaps, be they broadcast in the daytime or at prime time for decades before 'The Best of Both Worlds.' Doctor Who was a British serial, a format atypical of televised programming in the United States (outside of the aforementioned soaps). What Star Trek: The Next Generation did do was introduce the season-ending cliffhanger to prime time dramatic television in the United States. Especially among science fiction television, but not exclusively, it is the standard bearer or season enders and is repeatedly referenced above all others by writers and producers working in television.
As for the fanboys of 24 and Lost, they have a point. Their programs proved serialized television shows could be popular. Shows like Babylon 5 (and even Star Trek: Deep Space Nine) were small hits, not broad-based appeal hits like those shows (at least in their prime).
You're ignoring Buffy, Stargate, Twin Peaks, Hill Street Blues... the list can go on and on, all of which aired before with mixed success. Plus Serials have been around for years in both soaps, movies (Star Trek II-IV 
), radio, or a lot of things across the pond.
), radio, or a lot of things across the pond.
I don't remember what's in which episode but I do recall that "Whatever Happened" was a four star affair for me. And yeah Lorien is one of my favorite characters. He's the same actor who played Jack the Ripper in Season Two. Amazing actor. Wayne Alexander. He was also the Narn that G'Kar was talking to on the Narn Homeworld in "Rock Cried Out".
The Summoning
I'm starting to wonder who the real enemy is, The Shadows or the Vorlons. Both are really dicey and just really conspicuous. Maybe it's just my feeling on Kosh II, and how much of a lunetic he is but now we have the whole Vorlon fleet going after the Shadows and destroying a planet and taking matters into thier own hands. It's kind of like two brothers fighting over one another and the first ones were the parents.
Anyway, this season has been getting progressively better. Loved Sheridan coming back, and what is up with Garibaldi. Program activited? Somethings fishy there. Anyway, also good stuff with Londo, Vir and Cartagia. G'Kar screaming was a brutal moment (in a good way).
I'm starting to wonder who the real enemy is, The Shadows or the Vorlons. Both are really dicey and just really conspicuous. Maybe it's just my feeling on Kosh II, and how much of a lunetic he is but now we have the whole Vorlon fleet going after the Shadows and destroying a planet and taking matters into thier own hands. It's kind of like two brothers fighting over one another and the first ones were the parents.
Anyway, this season has been getting progressively better. Loved Sheridan coming back, and what is up with Garibaldi. Program activited? Somethings fishy there. Anyway, also good stuff with Londo, Vir and Cartagia. G'Kar screaming was a brutal moment (in a good way).
As you said earlier... "I kept going back to Sheridan's dream sequence and how he was "in between.". This is one interpretation of that.
As for Kosh II being different - well clearly Vorlons are not all the same. The question (& worry) is if Kosh I or II represent the more typical Vorlon.
Based on your speculation, I'm almost wondering if you've read spoilers regarding the show. You haven't been cheating, have you?
I've often wondered if this was done intentionally. I know he played several roles over the show, but one could make a thematic connection between Lorien and Sebastian.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Yes.
Trivia: Though you won't hear it on screen, Kosh II's name is actually Ulkesh.
Why does who did what first even matter? The Best of Both Worlds was an awesome cliffhanger, so why not just appreciate it on that basis?
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