B5 spinoff series Crusade not too shabby

[Plain Simple]

However, "Expect me when you see me" is both used by G'Kar in "Chrysalis" and by Galen in two different instances in Crusade (I think "War Zone" and "Racing the Night".) The line was first used by Gandalf in Lord of the Rings.

Hardly, though that may have been the first instance you were aware of it. "Expect me when you see me" was something my mother grew up hearing and saying in the 1920's, long before "Lord of the Rings" was written. I don't have any reason to think it was new then.

Jan

What a nice example of Older Than They Think.

 

[Tulin]

Let me rephrase the question? What specific dialogue? I am curious to exact quotes, because I don't recall any. Maybe a phrase or two that jms likes to use a lot ("after a fashion" comes to mind) but *whole lines of dialogue lifted wholesale?* Which ones? I just don't have the greatest memory when it comes to dialogue.

It's been quite a while since I watched Crusade, but I remember someone re-using Kosh's "And so it begins" line from B5's "Chrysalis."

I think you might be mixing up repeated lines. "And so it begins" is repeated *within* Babylon 5 (spoken by Delenn in "Parliament of Dreams" and then by Kosh in "Chrysalis", if memory serves). I don't think it's used again in Crusade.

However, "Expect me when you see me" is both used by G'Kar in "Chrysalis" and by Galen in two different instances in Crusade (I think "War Zone" and "Racing the Night".) The line was first used by Gandalf in Lord of the Rings.

Lyta also hears it in the episode in which she first demonstrates her telepathic abilities against a Shadow vessel.

 

[ria 75]

It's been quite a while since I watched Crusade, but I remember someone re-using Kosh's "And so it begins" line from B5's "Chrysalis."

I'm relatively sure that was Galen.

But, I think that line had a very meta aspect to it, a strong nod toward everything that had come before and to signal another beginning to a new story that had just begun.

It'd also be a hint toward the Technomage's origin as revealed in the trilogy of books.

Whatwhat? Book trilogy revealing technomage's origin? Title? Where can I find it? And is it advisable to read that if I've never had a chance to watch B5?
French SciFi only showed A Call to Arms followed by Crusade, so far. And I got hooked especially for Galen.
I liked captain Gideon, but Gary Cole (whom I found great in American Gothic) wasn't at ease in Matthew Gideon's character or something. He had a few bad scenes, like the ones with Tracy Scoggins. Maybe he was also written and directed the way I didn't like. And maybe in time he/they would have gotten better. Settled in the character's skin in a more natural manner.
The rest were all right within the limits of their parts.

I've never read fanfiction or tv series-derived books, but I may make an exception...

 

[ATimson]

Whatwhat? Book trilogy revealing technomage's origin? Title? Where can I find it?

The Passing of the Techno-Mages, by Jeanne Cavelos: Casting Shadows, Summoning Light, and Invoking Darkness. Unfortunately it, along with the rest of the Babylon 5 novels, are out of print; you'll have to try Amazon's used sales, or your local used bookstore.

And is it advisable to read that if I've never had a chance to watch B5?

Not at all; said origin will make absolutely no sense whatsoever. (Nor will books two/three of the trilogy, which heavily interleave with various Babylon 5 episodes.)

I liked captain Gideon, but Gary Cole (whom I found great in American Gothic) wasn't at ease in Matthew Gideon's character or something.

See, I always thought that he was at ease in the character, but that the character wasn't at ease with his situation.

I've never read fanfiction or tv series-derived books, but I may make an exception...

If it helps, the trilogy was based on an outline written by the creator of Crusade.

 

[Noname Given]

What I heard from people here was that this series wasn't worth the time. I've watched the first couple of episodes and must say that I like the cast and the stories aren't too bad. The only problem is Captain Gideon doesn't have the look and his hair is horribly 1978. Otherwise, he acts and sounds like a captain. Daniel Dae Kim seems like a great first officer and the doctor, archeologist/linguist, the alien woman from Call to Arms, and Galen are all pretty interesting.

Another interesting thing is this series seems to take something from Doctor Who and old scifi of the 60s in it's incidental music and, so far, the aliens seems somewhat cartoonish with big heads and big eyes. Also it has some pretty bad CGI effects with that gold dragon and some of the landscapes, which seems usual for something B5 related. (Insert comment about it being state of the art at the time here.)

Also, I'm liking that the series seems to be an attempt at merging space opera scifi with some fantasy.

What's your opinion?

I like the anime version that JMS styled it after - go catch the Space Crusier Yamato anime series from 1973 (Hell, the Excalibar 'main gun' is a complete ripoff of the Yamato's Wave Motion Gun with the EXACT same achillies heel).

Gotta give JMS credit - at least this wasn't another version of Lord of the Rings in space like Banylon 5.

 

[Jan]

Gotta give JMS credit - at least this wasn't another version of Lord of the Rings in space like Banylon 5.

Y'know, I keep reading people claiming that. But...wasn't LotR a quest? What was the quest in B5? Nobody ever seems to be able to say.

Jan

 

[DWF]

Gotta give JMS credit - at least this wasn't another version of Lord of the Rings in space like Banylon 5.

Y'know, I keep reading people claiming that. But...wasn't LotR a quest? What was the quest in B5? Nobody ever seems to be able to say.

Jan

I wouldn't call LOTR a quest story but there are similar elements of LOTR in B5.

 

[Reverend]

JMS makes no secret of being a Tolkien fan, but B5 doesn't have as much in common with LotR as some people claim. The only thing that was really overt was the odd quote, most of which involved the Techno-Mages, which being the B5 equivilant of Wizards I can hardly see how a Tolkien fan could resist slipping in Gandalf's own words, here and there.
Even so, it's not as if Tolkien is JMS's only influence. There's elements of B5 lore that are clearly inspired by the likes of the Lensman saga and HP Lovecraft. Hell, the Vorlon's true form is a dead ringer for the Elder Things!

 

[Forbin]

I love it. jms repeatedly admits over the years that B5 was influenced by everything from LotR to greek mythology, and people still think they're being smart by saying "Oh! he ripped it off!!"

 

[Mr Light]

Well, "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum" and "Z'ha'dum" had some pretty obvious LOTR parodies. Delenn's monologue about the Shadows is right out of LOTR "Shadow of the Past" (and they called Sauron the Shadow in that chapter a lot didn't they?). And then in "Z'ha'dum" Sheridan/Frodo has to go to the evil volcanic enemy stronghold alone without his wizard to help him where he kinda/almost dies and is given a wound that never heals until finally he gets taken away to the Gray Havens in a celestial ship in "Sleeping in Light". Also, Sheridan coming back from "death" at Z'ha'dum as a stronger militaristic figure is just like Gandalf dying at the Balrog and coming back as Gandalf the White. Oh and the Rangers are right out of, well, the Rangers in LOTR.

 

[Jan]

Archetypes. There are *many* influences on B5 from ancient mythology to Arthurian legend and so on. Whatever you're most familiar with is what you're likely to see.

What's the LotR equvalent of Boom-shobba-lobba-lobba?

Jan

 

[Plain Simple]

Let me quote myself on this.

What a nice example of Older Than They Think.

 

[Neroon]

I wouldn't call LOTR a quest story but there are similar elements of LOTR in B5.

It's a quest story more than it is anything else. Virtually every single character of note is on some type of journey, both in physical travel and in their station in life. Given that, I can see elements of quests in B5, what with the evolution of the characters of G'Kar and Londo as well as Sheridan.

Well, "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum" and "Z'ha'dum" had some pretty obvious LOTR parodies.

Minor quibble, but those wouldn't be "parodies" so much as they might be parallels.

 

[DWF]

It's a quest story more than it is anything else. Virtually every single character of note is on some type of journey, both in physical travel and in their station in life. Given that, I can see elements of quests in B5, what with the evolution of the characters of G'Kar and Londo as well as Sheridan.

It's a Campbell styled hero's journey that both B5 and LOTR are a part of but I wouldn't call it a quest story per se, they aren't quests to find something that's been lost or hidden like say Jason And The Argonauts or Dr. Who's quest to find the Key To Time.

 

[Neroon]

There is a quest to destroy the Ring, and a quest to save the Shire. A quest need not be limited to finding an object, but to attain a goal.

 

[DWF]

There is a quest to destroy the Ring, and a quest to save the Shire. A quest need not be limited to finding an object, but to attain a goal.

I guess you could look at it like that but I don't think that was Tolkien's intent though.

 

[Augustus]

I think that while being influenced by Tolkien and others, JMS did a brilliant job of telling HIS story.

The rise and fall of Londo, the earth war, etc etc were unique elements, as far as I know that didn't have any real "influence".

Also wasn't there a 2 hour TV movie once about the Rangers that had G'Kar in it and it was supposed to launch a new series but it never happened? anyone remember that?

 

[Colonel Midnight]

^ Legend of the Rangers, I believe, is what you're referring to.

It had some good points, but others...*oy*

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Jan]

Let me quote myself on this.

What a nice example of Older Than They Think.

Yes, exactly. Also to quote JMS:

We see what we look for and we look for what we think we will see.

Jan

 

[Plain Simple]

The rise and fall of Londo, the earth war, etc etc were unique elements, as far as I know that didn't have any real "influence".

The rise and fall of a hero or anti-hero and a civil war (combined with elements of fascism if you like) were hardly new concepts when JMS used them. But then, what is? Most if not all stories have been told in some form or another in the past. It's how they're reinvented and updated that keeps them fresh. At least, that's my 2 cents.