B5 season 4
- Thread starter Captain Worf
- Start date
I agree with most of this. I think overall that season 4 was the best of the series, but there are so many elements from 3 that are fantastic that it is hard to judge it properly.
I too missed Ivanova in S5, and loathed Lockley at the beginning of the season but she definitely grew on me. The additional intrigue of having both an unknown governor of the station as well as being on the other side during the war created some very useful conflict.
The short version is that she, or perhaps her agent as much as she, attempted a contract 'negotiation' that failed.
At the time that WB was in negotiation with TNT to pick up the 5th season, the actors were asked to sign a 30-day extension on their options to allow time for the negotiations. All of the actors signed the extensions except Claudia. When the negotiations with TNT were successful, Claudia was still offered a contract but refused to sign.
Where the differences in versions happen have to do with the 'episodes off' issue. JMS says that Claudia requested (iirc) 4 episodes off and a)wanted to be paid for all 22 instead of only 18 and b) have that time off promise in writing. JMS said that he agreed to allow the 4 episodes off but wasn't able to put it in writing and that the de-facto per-episode raise she wanted was out of the question because it would have negated all of the other actor's contracts. Claudia claims not to have insisted on a raise. We learned in the script books that a couple of weeks after the contract debacle (the contracts came in at the very end of the extension period while most of the cast along with JMS and John Copeland were in the UK for a convention), Claudia's agent called and wanted to negotiate though it was too late by then.
My issues with her actions were mainly with the fact that she claimed to get fired and tried to use the fan base to try to further her aims. By the same token, I can see where her not getting the promise of time off in writing could be an issue. For all that JMS had done the same for other actors in B5 previously, was it certain that another producer would hire her without concrete assurance of her availability? Very possibly not.
Thanks, Neroon.
Jan
The crazy part to me was that Claudia helped jms & Doug & John convince most of the rest of the cast to sign the extension when she didn't do it herself. I guess this is likely why Bruce was pissed about the whole thing.
Also jms said some of the cast threatened to leave the show if Claudia was allowed back after everything:
jms said:
The Shadow War was not going to go past season 4 in either case. Just spread out across season 4 a little more. It was the Earth civil war and the Minbari civil war threads that would have gone into both season 4 and season 5 if there wasn't a question of when the show was going to end.
Season 3 was my favorite. Season 4 had some highs and lows. The opening 6 with the Shadow War were the best six eps of the series. The middle third of the season was very subpar to me. I found the Minbari Civil War to be completely uninteresting (sorry Neroon 
) and the "sitting around the station" episodes didn't really grab me either. The final third had a lot of great episodes, but the entire concept was inherently flawed. You go from fighting invincible alien gods to a primitive dictatorship when you have invincible alien technology. There's no threat ("Between Dark" non-withstanding).
) and the "sitting around the station" episodes didn't really grab me either. The final third had a lot of great episodes, but the entire concept was inherently flawed. You go from fighting invincible alien gods to a primitive dictatorship when you have invincible alien technology. There's no threat ("Between Dark" non-withstanding).At this point it wasn't about who had more firepower -- it's about who you're killing -- people you work with, friends, etc. In the episode "No Surrender, No Retreat" it seems clear that the Earthforce ships are outmatched by the White Stars -- but they are also desperate thinking that Sheridan is going to commit atrocities on them etc. and the emotions come from such things as seeing the Earthfroce ships fight on and seeing the Pollux explode. At this point of the story it's a different focus than Sheridan having better technology.
Moreover, these two conflicts Sheridan was fighting were almost completely different types, though they did have some intersection. Both were in one sense about choice. However, the Shadow War was more straightforward fighting against insurmountable odds, yada yada yada. The Earth Civil War was a more personal fight, where almost anyone you killed was someone you knew or trained with or at least identified with as a member of the same species. The portrayals of each necessarily have to be different in nature. Now, the Minbari Civil War probably suffered from the compressed story, but I suspect it might have become a little more interesting had there been the originally designed amount of time. I've always been a little fuzzy as to the precise evolution of that, but I think DWF has a clearer picture of how long each thread would have lasted.
jms said in the script books that the Minbari civil war would have been in season 5, but since he thought season 4 would be the end, he had to wrap up that thread in season 4.
And I think the Shadow War was going to have another four eps. so the final four eps. of the Earth Civil War would end in the fifth season.
JMS has alternated between saying that "The Face of the Enemy" would have been the S4 finale and saying that "Intersections in Real Time" would have been the S4 finale, had he not been pushed into cramming so much of the story into S4. I don't know if he actually said that all four of the extra eps in S4 would have gone into the Shadow War.
And the Earth Civil War thread might have been stretched out more too. If S4 had ended with "Intersections in Real Time", then would S5 have begun with "Darkness" followed by "Endgame", which wraps up the Earth Civil War just two episodes into the season? Or would it have stretched out another episode or two into the season? The latter seems more like JMS's style, as he tended not to resolve dangling storylines from previous seasons that quickly into the new season, but I don't know if he's ever definitively commented on that.
I don't wanna sound too critical because this is my favorite show but the final two years to me violated the cardinal rule of drama; rising tension, small denouement. The story peaks in "Into the Fire" and then the magic is gone as it were. Speaking from a strictly military view, the White Stars are invincible. Earthforce can't hurt them aside from lucky mishaps and suicide runs (but since the WSs are so much faster and can turn on a dime good luck for that). And of course S5 is even worse as we go from invincible aliens to helpless Earthforce to hippy teeps in Downbelow (and then the Centauri which was a vast improvement of course). This is the same reason I disliked the Minbari Civil War. We didn't actually see any fighting, just a couple matte shots of a war torn city. I know this is because of the crunch, but that's a let down.
but the final two years to me violated the cardinal rule of drama; rising tension, small denouement. The story peaks in "Into the Fire" and then the magic is gone as it were. Speaking from a strictly military view, the White Stars are invincible. Earthforce can't hurt them aside from lucky mishaps and suicide runs (but since the WSs are so much faster and can turn on a dime good luck for that). And of course S5 is even worse as we go from invincible aliens to helpless Earthforce to hippy teeps in Downbelow (and then the Centauri which was a vast improvement of course). This is the same reason I disliked the Minbari Civil War. We didn't actually see any fighting, just a couple matte shots of a war torn city. I know this is because of the crunch, but that's a let down.
That's interesting I'd never before heard that the B4 comic was a jettisoned episode. That would have been great to have seen (and would have wrapped up a nice hanging chad). Of course, showing new aliens attacking B4 as it tears itself up in atmo would have been REALLY expensive 
As I recall JMS said the only thing removed from the Shadow War was 'a couple explosions' and that "Into the Fire" would have been a two parter basically. I also remember hearing the Minbari Civil War would have been much longer, but I seem to remember that it would have been in S4. I'd like to think that it would have involved characters other than Delenn and Lennier. I didn't like the way it took place in a microcosm from everyone else, particularly the human characters.
As I recall JMS said the only thing removed from the Shadow War was 'a couple explosions' and that "Into the Fire" would have been a two parter basically. I also remember hearing the Minbari Civil War would have been much longer, but I seem to remember that it would have been in S4. I'd like to think that it would have involved characters other than Delenn and Lennier. I didn't like the way it took place in a microcosm from everyone else, particularly the human characters.
I don't wanna sound too critical because this is my favorite show
It's all a matter of perspective, of course. The White Stars were proven to be advanced but not impregnable. Prior to their use in the Earth Civil War, many would have been lost in the fight against the Shadows and Vorlons, so their numbers would be down. Plus, Sheridan didn't want to use anyone but Earth personnel in the the ECV, so that again reduces the numbers of ships involved. If you feel it was all over in "Into the Fire", I can see why. The rest unfortunately suffers from that aforementioned compression. Even so, I still don't feel that it suffers so much as you contend. I still enjoyed the action and machinations involved in ending the Earth Civil War. What happens after the battles in "Between the Darkness and the Light" was a logical and enjoyable "warm down" wrapping up those storylines. Imperfect as it was, it still worked for me. Sure I wish there had been more of the Minbari Civil War, and so does jms himself. But what we did get - yes it was somewhat incomplete - didn't depend on seeing the battles and fighting and killing. Not every war story told subsists And don't on those devices.
There were a couple of things about the alien healing device) that did bother me. One was.... the awkward name. 
Okay, so I know that Dr. Rosen likely never had a chance to know what the device was called, so it follows franklin never did either. It's just that "alien healing device" seemed such an inefficient name.
The second thing was that it could so easily have become a deus ex machina. I suppose in some circles it IS seen that way.
In the end neither problem for me was so pronounced that it prevented me from enjoying the stories where it was used. it's not that I like a "ends justify the means" approach, so muich as by comparison the benefits were great enough that you tended not to notice the problems so much.
Okay, so I know that Dr. Rosen likely never had a chance to know what the device was called, so it follows franklin never did either. It's just that "alien healing device" seemed such an inefficient name.The second thing was that it could so easily have become a deus ex machina. I suppose in some circles it IS seen that way.
In the end neither problem for me was so pronounced that it prevented me from enjoying the stories where it was used. it's not that I like a "ends justify the means" approach, so muich as by comparison the benefits were great enough that you tended not to notice the problems so much.
I don't really see it as a "deus ex machina" because it kills one character to save another. If it just put Marcus into a coma for two episodes (instead of 500 years) then yeah, it'd be a cheat. As it stands it's the means for the ultimate sacrifice and an expression of the true depth of his feelings towards Ivanova.
Besides, it's not as if they rolled the thing out every time there's some character we care about in trouble; it's been under lock and key for three years. That means all the way through the Shadow War, with bodies pilling up in the docking bay, Franklin resisted the urge to put it to questionable use. A more pragmatic doctor may have used it to save they dying by draining what little life was left in the hopeless.
Besides, it's not as if they rolled the thing out every time there's some character we care about in trouble; it's been under lock and key for three years. That means all the way through the Shadow War, with bodies pilling up in the docking bay, Franklin resisted the urge to put it to questionable use. A more pragmatic doctor may have used it to save they dying by draining what little life was left in the hopeless.
The one thing that annoyed me about using the machine was that Marcus seemed to insist that only he could give "the ultimate sacrifice". Why couldn't several of those closest to Ivanova give some of themselves to save her. Sure, it is very romantic that the virginal Marcus died for his love, but it seems like he might have wanted to hang around for some Ivanova loving after her life was saved.
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