Spoilers Avengers: Endgame grade and discussion thread

[Guy Gardener]

So far as I understand it; according to quantum physics the entire universe "splits" every time any particle interacts with any other particle, anywhere and at any time. So effectively infinite branching, everywhere and at every time....unless there's some weird void in the universe with zero particle interactions.

Of course, that's not how it works since "splits" implies a linear path that can deviate rather than what's probably really going one which is everything existing everywhere and at every time and our perception of causality is just a chain of infinite collapsed wave functions along a 4 dimensional light-cone.

Time travellers and indecisive restaurant patrons do not have the magical ability to create new timelines anymore than a boat creates the currents in the ocean. It's all always there, it's just a matter of navigating the infinite, which is what Stark's gizmo did: provide a means of returning back to the *exact* point of origin down to the planck unit.

Infinite time zig-zags.

They didn't return to the "exact" point of origin.

Spatially yes, but it was hours later.

What that means, who the fuck knows, but at the end they said that Cap would only be gone for 10 seconds, and Steve had the will to fight that. Meanwhile in the middle of the movie, all the heroes arrived home at the same time even though their adventures were almost probably different lengths.

Thanos arrived later. So he overcame the pull of the anchor in the platform air traffic controlling them home.

 

[urbandefault]

What that means, who the fuck knows, but at the end they said that Cap would only be gone for 10 seconds, and Steve had the will to fight that.

Or, after he'd replaced all the stones and "trimmed the branches," he traveled to 1945 to be with Peggy and destroyed the homing device. No device, no recall.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Destroying the temporal GPS, would have made it hard to get home.

There's probably a standby or an off function.

 

[Anwar]

My issue is what about past-Thanos that got dusted by Tony at the end of the battle? If past Thanos gets dusted then he never did the first snap from Infinity War. So that creates a branching timeline where the events of Infinity War never happened?

Yes. That Thanos was eliminated from his 2014 so everything around the time of that Univere's GOTG Part 1 would happen differently.

As for Sharon, why do people keep thinking she was Peggy's daughter? She was her great-niece. She was too young (late 20s when we first met her) to be her niece.

 

[Reverend]

They didn't return to the "exact" point of origin.

Spatially yes, but it was hours later.

It was seconds at most. Remember the first test run when Banner said "I'll send you back a week, let you walk around for an hour and bring you back in 10 seconds"? Same deal. Also note how they all arrived back at the same moment despite spending different amount of times in the past, which is why nobody noticed that Nebula had been replaced. And again with Steve's last trip out, he was supposed to come back in like 5 seconds.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

They may have prevented the divergent timelines where the stones were taken but they're sure one where Thanos went away.

I thought Stark's was just as sad as the others because he lost his chance to watch his daughter grow up.

 

[TedShatner10]

I thought Stark's was just as sad as the others because he lost his chance to watch his daughter grow up.

Oh, Tony Stark's daughter not growing up without such an amazing father bummed me out too, but at least Tony died in the arms of his loving wife, surrounded by his comrades, knowing victory (while Prime Gamora and Natasha violently died terrified and virtually alone on that awful, desolate planet).

 

[Reverend]

Oh, Tony Stark's daughter not growing up without such an amazing father bummed me out too, but at least Tony died in the arms of his loving wife, surrounded by his comrades, knowing victory (while Prime Gamora and Natasha violently died terrified and virtually alone on that awful, desolate planet).

Nat most certainly wasn't terrified or alone.

 

[TedShatner10]

Nat most certainly wasn't terrified or alone.

No doubt she died like a lioness, but I could still register a lot of sorrow and fear with her last facial expression, before she leapt backwards. And Vormir looked as bleak and lonely as it possibly could get, an absolutely dreadful place (and way) to die.

Johansson should be nominated an supporting role Academy Award (she came so far from her intro as a bored, irritated PA in Iron Man 2).

 

[Captrek]

And Vormir looked as bleak and lonely as it possibly could get, an absolutely dreadful place (and way) to die.

Looked like it was relatively quick and painless, and helped save trillions of lives, including Clint’s.

My death will probably be slow, painful, bed-bound, and irrelevant to the world at large. I’d trade that death for one like hers in a New York minute. The only thing “dreadful” about the way she died is that she was still rather young. Aside from that, it’s the kind of death I fantasize about.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I liked that scene where the two were fighting for who got to kill themselves. I genuinely didn’t know who would win.

 

[Captrek]

I liked that scene where the two were fighting for who got to kill themselves. I genuinely didn’t know who would win.

I was rooting for Natasha, for the sake of Clint’s family. I found her “You need to live for your family” position more persuasive than his “I should die for what I did as Ronin” argument.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I liked that scene where the two were fighting for who got to kill themselves. I genuinely didn’t know who would win.

Yeah, I liked that scene for the same reason. It was one of the few moments of the film where I had no idea what the outcome would be, which is rare in superhero films (and I say that as someone who loves all of the MCU films).

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Of course the only way a comic book movie character is ever really permadead is if the actor won’t renew his contract.

Sure Natasha and Gamora seem dead. But (Insert any plot device) and “But...but...we all saw you die!”

 

[TedShatner10]

Looked like it was relatively quick and painless, and helped save trillions of lives, including Clint’s.

It was a virtually instataneous death to save endless quintillion of lives, but considering her harsh and unhappy life, I really wanted them to have another solution and her death is one of the rare times I cried over a made up person depicted by an overpaid lady.

Sure Natasha and Gamora seem dead. But (Insert any plot device) and “But...but...we all saw you die!”

Why are people so desperate to undo and ruin such beautifully sad and impactful deaths? You'll get such shit like Kingsman 2 and later seasons of Heroes.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I’m not quick to undo them, just pointing out that this is a comic book universe and anyone can come back any time.

More fun nitpicks:

If Strange only saw one future where he win did he just not see any futures where Nebula was on a different team?

Was Tony the only one who could safely even put it on besides Hulk or could anyone else who briefly held the gauntlet have sacrificed themselves to do that at any time? Was anything stopping Hawkeye from snapping and sacrificing himself the moment he picked it up?

 

[Captrek]

Why are people so desperate undo and ruin such beautifully sad and impactful deaths? You'll get such shit like Kingsman 2 and later seasons of Heroes.

Was The Search for Spock shit?

 

[urbandefault]

Was Tony the only one who could safely even put it on besides Hulk or could anyone else who briefly held the gauntlet have sacrificed themselves to do that at any time? Was anything stopping Hawkeye from snapping and sacrificing himself the moment he picked it up?

1. Hulk = Gamma monster, severely injured by the power surge and snap.
2. Tony = Iron Man, armored, severely killed by the power surge and snap.
3. Hawkeye = Mortal and not armored, likely to have been severely incinerated by the power surge, making the snap totally moot.

 

[TedShatner10]

Was The Search for Spock shit?

Nowhere near shit as Kingsman 2 but nowhere near as good as Infinity War or Endgame. Though they counterbalanced Spock's death by killing Kirk's son and blowing up the original Enterprise (and Spock's resurrection was foreshadowed by his "remember" mindmeld and lampshaded by the weird qualities of the Genesis planet).

Really, I don't mind dead characters coming back, if it means there are poignant consequences and potentially bad side effects (like with '14 Gamora).

Tony Stark was an ignorant, alcohol abusing, hedonistic playboy who turned a blind eye to the bad deeds of Stark Industries (Stane was a HYDRA operative?), but when faced with the consequences of his absent management, turned himself and his company around, saved his country and the world many times, found himself with his daughter, and then died a true hero.

Loki, despite all the egomania, mayhem, scheming, killings, centuries of crippling insecurity, and back stabbing, really did love his step brother and adopted people, but unfortunately had to die to prove that love.

Natasha, brought up by Russian HYDRA(?) in an environment of murder, violence, torture, lust, hatred, and obedience to be this killing machine, rose above all that into a truly loving and selfless person who fiercely gave her life for others.

Gamora (also press ganged as a child into violence) proved that even a person, so horribly victimised and abused, could fight to the end.

Why reverse such poignant endings?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

1. Hulk = Gamma monster, severely injured by the power surge and snap.
2. Tony = Iron Man, armored, severely killed by the power surge and snap.
3. Hawkeye = Mortal and not armored, likely to have been severely incinerated by the power surge, making the snap totally moot.

Ok, so it does hurt you just putting it on, not just when you use it?