Aspiring writers?

[Greg Cox]

There are also writer's workshops like Clarion or Clarion West. They're not for everyone, but attending Clarion West in '84 was one of the best decisions I've ever made. Besides getting plenty of valuable instruction and advice from the likes of Vonda McIntyre, Terry Carr, David Hartwell, Norman Spinrad, Suzy McKee Charnas, and Arthur Byron Cover, I also made valuable contacts in the publishing industry that served me well later on.

It also helps to get to know professional authors and editors via the sf convention circuit.

 

[Therin of Andor]

There are also writer's workshops like Clarion or Clarion West. They're not for everyone... I also made valuable contacts in the publishing industry that served me well later on.

Yep. My attendance at two David Gerrold writers workshops, and a Susan Sackett one, definitely led to my courage to saying "Yes" to my first paid writing assignment, which in turn helped me get more offers, and then a stint as an editor of a professional journal for 4.5 years.

 

[Trent Roman]

^ Don't know about the convention circuit, but I know that when I finally finish that #&%!$ first novel I've been trying to get a start on for the last two years, I'll be harrassing some of the industry veterans around these parts for advice on telling the good agents from the scammers.

Duly warned.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'll be harrassing some of the industry veterans around these parts for advice on telling the good agents from the scammers.

Easy to tell. Scammer agents ask you to pay money up front to let them handle your manuscript.

Real ones work to get you a contract, then you pay them a percentage of the money the publisher pays you.

 

[Trent Roman]

^ Alright, the hardworking ones with industry contacts from the lazy ones whose clients languish unread, then. (Besides, I figure if I already know about that particular scam, the scammers have since invented new ways of bilking prospective authors. I'm not sure if publishing scams are quite the 'arms race' as spam vs. spam filters is, but I'm not trusting.)

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Therin of Andor]

the lazy ones whose clients languish unread

That's not a lazy agent, that's one with alternate sources of income - or the manuscript's not really good after all. If the manuscript is good, the agent will be placing it immediately, then hassling with phone calls to clinch a sale. Any languishing is on behalf of the publishers, weighing up their figures for the month.

A good book is gonna sell. Sometimes it takes time for book, publisher, luck and timing to align.

 

[Greg Cox]

^ Don't know about the convention circuit, but I know that when I finally finish that #&%!$ first novel I've been trying to get a start on for the last two years, I'll be harrassing some of the industry veterans around these parts for advice on telling the good agents from the scammers.

Duly warned.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

That's what writerbeware.com is for . . . .

 

[Geoff Thorne]

and NOBODY pays people to "go away." They pay them to make the suit go away because a judge makes them. No movie studio in history has given up a single penny to a writer they didn't have to.

And not always then.

That is THE most UNTRUE statement I have ever read on TrekBBS.

Obviously you know NOTHING about the television business.

--Ted

P.S. And I wouldn't want Harlan Ellison's career, either. Chevy couldn't pay me enough to stand next to one of its sub-compacts and play Mr. Huckster.

Obviously I was being hyperbolic.

I didn't say you had to BE Harlan, but, yeah, I don't think most would turn down his abilities or his decade-after-decade of success. Yeah, he pisses people off and is very thin-skinned and odd. I don't recommend either as behavioral choices. Most of us care if people like us. I don't think Harlan gives a rat's ass. So, sure, knock him as a misanthrope, by all means. But never knock the guy's cred as a writer. That's just silly. He's a killer.

Will: As for the payouts, regardless of what they TELL you, the only reason studios give up a dime is because they must. They'd pay you in broken decoder rings if they could get away with it. Or used candy wrappers. Or make you pay them.

If they said they felt they'd stepped on your toes and paid you for it, the real translation is that they felt they were in some way exposed and were staving off later trouble.

Studios are Cthullu-esque elder gods and should be treated accordingly.

 

[William Leisner]

Will: As for the payouts, regardless of what they TELL you, the only reason studios give up a dime is because they must. [...] If they said they felt they'd stepped on your toes and paid you for it, the real translation is that they felt they were in some way exposed and were staving off later trouble.

You realize, of course, this is the 180 degree opposite of what you originally said.

 

[Geoff Thorne]

Will: As for the payouts, regardless of what they TELL you, the only reason studios give up a dime is because they must. [...] If they said they felt they'd stepped on your toes and paid you for it, the real translation is that they felt they were in some way exposed and were staving off later trouble.

You realize, of course, this is the 180 degree opposite of what you originally said.

No. "Go away" implies it's just a nuisance and it's cheaper to pay you than feild the occasional phone call from some small town lawyer. It's not. If they didn't feel there was a larger, and therefore more financially impacting, exposure to be avoided, they wouldn't have shelled out a dime. The Trek offices were inundated with such claims (part of the reason it was pretty much the only TV show with an open door policy when it came to scripts) and the VAST majority of them were summarily ignored because there was no exposure. Some were taken seriously but ultimately not paid out and a VERY VERY small percentage got a payout to forestall a possible exposure issue. If you got a check, they were legally exposed. Simple. It's not a "nuisance;" it's plugging a leak.

Paying you quick for something they claim is a mistake, rather than owe you lots more down the line when they are truly exposed, is not making something go away. It's getting off cheaper earlier. They only pay on a lawyer's recommendation, not because they're sweet.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush Limborg
In his Lessons from a Lifetime of Writing, he advises rookies to look for agents and/or publishers that are willing to take a chance.

The point being, that if your manuscript is so amazing then the agent will be willing to "take a chance" because they know they can sell it. You won't have to cajole them - or even pay them - to look at your work and shop it around. (You don't pay your agent until after they secure you a contract, BTW.)

YOU DON'T PAY YOUR AGENT UNTILL AFTER? Awesome!

Or novel manuscripts for publishers who don't insist on agents, but be prepared for your manuscript to sit on a slush pile.

Oh, I don't do slush piles. Too icky.

??? You think real writers can only write in one sector of one genre? The idea is to try lots of things.

Not at all. I have quite a few Non-Trek Ideas, myself. (Mostly political thrillers, BTW.) However, I'm sure there are at least a few Trekkies who only write because they are Trekkies. They don't have any Non-Trek ideas (yet...). I was kinda speaking for them.

Quote:
So, where can rookies like myself find a good agent, hmm?
The moment you write a truly great manuscript. They'll be falling over you.

Okey-dokey!

Quote:
how do you find someone who's "willing to take a chance on a rookie"?
Get some short stories published. Or a full novel that gets noticed on a slush pile. And do some writing classes, join a writers' group, do lots of networking with other people who are working at getting published. Once your manuscript is ready, there'll be plenty of people recommending you to their agent.

Gee, thanks, Therin! So...how do I find me some Trek-writer groups?

 

[Jim Johnson]

Gee, thanks, Therin! So...how do I find me some Trek-writer groups?

You could start with my Yahoo group. It started off as a SNW-only group, but it's more of a general purpose writing group now. Most of the writers there are Trek fans, so it's as good a place as any to start.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SNW_Writers/

I'm willing to bet there are tons more Trek writing groups online in one form or another. Google around.

 

[Geoff Thorne]

for venues for your work I suggest checking in with RALAN.COM and DUOTROPE.COM.

big fun to be had there.

 

[KRAD]

YOU DON'T PAY YOUR AGENT UNTILL AFTER? Awesome!

Technically, you don't pay your agent at all, the publisher does. Agents work on a commission, which is a percentage (15% is the industry standard) of whatever you make. The publisher pays the advance to the agent rather than you, and then the agent sends you a check for the same amount, minus that 15%.

This also motivates the agent to get the best possible deal for you, since the more money you make, the more money the agent makes...

 

[cbp44189]

They only ask King to be creative and be himself give them something creepy and he delivers. He creates his own characters and does as he wishes. And I don't do trek or sci-fi writing, It doesn't suit me and im not a fan of the genre.

We weren't talking about Stephen King and, more to the point, we weren't talking about original fiction, we were talking about Star Trek fiction, and you do have to follow the rules to write tie-in fiction of any sort.

I am kind of curious what you're doing here if you're not a fan of the genre, since this is a forum about Star Trek books. (Not that you're not welcome, I'm just confused.)

A writer needs to be in it because its a calling, not because your good at it.. not because you like to write and sure the hell not for money or fame. Any other reason is senseless.

Aaaaaand this is nonsense. Utter, total nonsense. The technical term for writers who aren't in it to be paid is "hobbyist." But professional artistic endeavors are always for money, and what's more always have been. The myth of the starving artist is just that: a myth, perpetuated by failed artists who needed an excuse for their failure. Those who think true art can't be created under such restraints should recall that Michelangelo's painting of the Sistine Chapel's ceiling was a media tie-in work-for-hire.[/QUOTE

Did he ever say why he's here if he's "Not a fan?" I dont understand either.

 

[JoeZhang]

The technical term for writers who aren't in it to be paid is "hobbyist."

I was a hobbyist - sorta - I've had a half of shandy, so beware of typos.

Here we go....

My very very short fiction writing career (years later, I did get published - as a academic/non-fiction writer) goes as follows.

So I'm seeing this girl and we end up at a party and she introduces me to "some guy" - anyway, they've all done a lot of coke and stuff (I don't do drugs, never have, never will) and for whatever reason she says "joe has an idea" - so I make this this victorian children's story crossed with some fantasy elements - literally off the top of my head.

"great we'll do that!" so anyway, a short period later, I've got a contract and a modest advance (a few thousand, I forget) - but of course, I'm not a writer and I have no interest in writing.

So I sit there every day for three weeks and turn out 1000 or so words. So, being a honourable chap, I give the advance back. Oh wait, I don't - I move because I spend it all (I was a student at the time). And then they go bust and I never hear any more about it.

The moral of tehs story: em.. er.. stuff happens and stuff. Oh and if you want to be a writer of fiction, you need to be able to write - and stuff.

Oh and "just say no!" that's the other moral.

 

[Turtletrekker]

OT, JoeZhang-- what is the context of the Alan Moore quote in your sig?

 

[JoeZhang]

OT, JoeZhang-- what is the context of the Alan Moore quote in your sig?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Moore#The_League_of_Extraordinary_Gentlemen_film

 

[Turtletrekker]

OT, JoeZhang-- what is the context of the Alan Moore quote in your sig?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Moore#The_League_of_Extraordinary_Gentlemen_film

Thanks!

 

[Nerdius Maximus]

I've been on a serious writing kick lately. Been forcing myself to write every day, even if it's just a page or two. I've just sent a short story manuscript off to Asimov's, and I'm currently working on one that I plan to submit to F&SF. I'd say that the latter probably has a better chance of getting published, based upon the fact that it's more consistent with the type of story they're looking for.