Aspiring writers?

[BrotherBenny]

FYI, I was referring to more recently regarding him. He's had nothing published in the last five and a half years.

Anyway, I should be getting on with my own novel, but I'm procrastinating here while I get certain plot elements clear in my head.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Actually, Cameron told Starlog magazine he ripped off a couple of Outer Limits episodes... Ellison is completely right on this one.

That was my memory of it too. Thanks!

 

[Therin of Andor]

Okay guys, let's veer away from the "Bash Harlan Ellison" discussion that's going on here and get back on topic.

Mmm, tricky when these warnings end up on the next page... Sorry.

 

[msbae]

I don't care who came up with the Terminator concept. I'm just glad it exists and turned out so well.

 

[Rush Limborg]

I'm a relatively new blogger. I have a couple of questions about the guidelines.

Do they allow stories that focus on near-regulars, like Rand, Chapel, Pulaski, Ro Laren, or Keiko?

Also, about the "Don't give any previously unestablished facts about a character" rule. How specific is that exactly? Do these rules allow for "facts" established in an earlier book?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Do they allow stories that focus on near-regulars, like Rand, Chapel, Pulaski, Ro Laren, or Keiko?

Certainly in Richard Arnold's time at the ST Office, authors were discouraged from straying too far from what he called "the big seven" of TOS and "the big eight" of TNG. That was long ago, but it's still a good guide for first-timers. You're proving you can follow guidelines, and that you can write well. Use the seven TOS crew, or the opening-credits cast of TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT and set it squarely within the era of what was canonically established for that show.

Novels that focus on a guest star, or minor regular character, should be left to the Pocket stable of authors when writing your proposal and sample chapters. A first-time ST author, following the S&S guidelines, would be foolish to focus on a third-stringer.

about the "Don't give any previously unestablished facts about a character" rule.

Things like long lost siblings or partners, or revealing that Chapel and Number One are sisters, or that Pulaski used to be a Cardassian.

How specific is that exactly? Do these rules allow for "facts" established in an earlier book?

You're supposed to ignore all previous books. The proposal you write will not necessarily be the story of the book that gets published. (Unless it's amazingly good!). If the proposal and sample chapters are accepted as good ST writing, you'll probably have a conference with the editors where you spin new proposals, or polish the existing one. Links to previous novels will happen at that point, not before.

 

[TGTheodore]

Do they allow stories that focus on near-regulars, like Rand, Chapel, Pulaski, Ro Laren, or Keiko?

For Constellations I pitched a Chapel story and was given the green light. It was kind of a tight deadline so the execution of my outline was not my best work. As a result it didn't appear in the anthology (rightfully so).

But yes, they were looking specifically for a Chapel short fiction.

--Ted

EDITED: To keep people from realizing how senile I've become.

 

[Therin of Andor]

But yes, they were looking specifically for a Rand short fiction.

But first-timers don't pitch short stories. They must propose a novel that fits the rules. You're a proven SNW author.

 

[Geoff Thorne]

I think Ellison is a complete ass and likes to sue others for possibly-imagined slights against his writing than actually, you know, doing some more of his own.

Mr. E is a fantastically gifted writer of genre fiction with a career that's older than most who post in this forum (by far). He is cantankerous and doesn't suffer fools or thieves.

There isn't a scifi writer alive who wouldn't give their teeth to have Harlan's career. Hell, there probably isn't a writer who wouldn't want it.

He isn't the only one who saw the "similarities" between his work and Cameron's and NOBODY pays people to "go away." They pay them to make the suit go away because a judge makes them. No movie studio in history has given up a single penny to a writer they didn't have to.

And not always then.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Now for the matter of The Writer's Catch-22. You know, the one that says: "I can't get a publisher because I don't have an agent, BUT I can't get an agent because I "have no experience"! (Translation: I haven't gotten anything published.)"

OKAY! Way back when, Pocket had a way around this problem (Strange New Worlds), but, as we all know, that's dead, Jim. (Ironic: When the project existed, I was typing away at story after story, but I was one year too young. By the time I approach my coming of age, I was one year too late!)

Sooo... There is a guidebook to writing by master author David Morrell (Y'know, the guy that created Rambo.). In his Lessons from a Lifetime of Writing, he advises rookies to look for agents and/or publishers that are willing to take a chance. The alternative, of course, is to write short stories for magazines and anthologies.

Since the only Trek publisher out there is Pocket, that leaves agents and short stories. Aaaand... if you're broke on non-Trek story ideas (like most fans, i'll wager), that kinda rules out the last option.

So, where can rookies like myself find a good agent, hmm? I know the writers here are probably not allowed to reccomend anyone, but... how do you find someone who's "willing to take a chance on a rookie"?

 

[Jim Johnson]

So, where can rookies like myself find a good agent, hmm? I know the writers here are probably not allowed to reccomend anyone, but... how do you find someone who's "willing to take a chance on a rookie"?

Do your research. Grab a copy of the latest literary agents guide from your local bookstore or library and/or research agents online.

When in doubt, check out the fine folks at http://www.sfwa.org/Beware/ to help differentiate the professional agents from the deadbeat scum who exist only to bilk unsuspecting writers out of their money.

 

[Amy Sisson]

There isn't a scifi writer alive who wouldn't give their teeth to have Harlan's career. Hell, there probably isn't a writer who wouldn't want it.

Sorry to nitpick, but I'm a science fiction writer, and I have no interest in having H.E.'s career. He has a tarnished reputation both in and out of the field (his incident at a recent Worldcon didn't help his case any), and I want to have my career, however it ends up, not his.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Grab a copy of the latest literary agents guide from your local bookstore or library and/or research agents online.

Ah...The Literary Marketplace, yes, I've heard of it.... So I take it the Marketplace tells you what you need to know about each specific agent then?

Hmm. I just might check it out. Thank's for the tip!

 

[William Leisner]

There isn't a scifi writer alive who wouldn't give their teeth to have Harlan's career. Hell, there probably isn't a writer who wouldn't want it.

*raises hand* Do not want.

What's more, I couldn't have it -- as you say, I was born well after Ellison's career was at its peak, and the business of SF has changed radically since the 50s and 60s. Long gone are the days when a writer could pound out a short story a week, sell it Super Keen Space Stories for a cent or two a word, and be able to live and support a family on it. Gone also are the days when TV producers were actually impressed by writers who were published in Super Keen, let alone willing to put up with one missed deadline from them.

He isn't the only one who saw the "similarities" between his work and Cameron's and NOBODY pays people to "go away." They pay them to make the suit go away because a judge makes them. No movie studio in history has given up a single penny to a writer they didn't have to.

Star Trek: Voyager paid me $1000 because an episode they did ("Coda") contained a plot element that vaguely resembled one in a pitch of mine which they rejected a year and a half earlier. I never would have seen the connection, and it was clear that they didn't realize they may have been inspired by my pitch until the script was in front of the cameras.

 

[TGTheodore]

and NOBODY pays people to "go away." They pay them to make the suit go away because a judge makes them. No movie studio in history has given up a single penny to a writer they didn't have to.

And not always then.

That is THE most UNTRUE statement I have ever read on TrekBBS.

Obviously you know NOTHING about the television business.

--Ted

P.S. And I wouldn't want Harlan Ellison's career, either. Chevy couldn't pay me enough to stand next to one of its sub-compacts and play Mr. Huckster.

 

[Christopher]

Star Trek: Voyager paid me $1000 because an episode they did ("Coda") contained a plot element that vaguely resembled one in a pitch of mine which they rejected a year and a half earlier. I never would have seen the connection, and it was clear that they didn't realize they may have been inspired by my pitch until the script was in front of the cameras.

That's odd, because I pitched an episode called "Terok Hel" set on a duplicate Cardassian station, and the next year they did "Empok Nor" set on a duplicate Cardassian station, and I never saw a cent. Although on second thought, I imagine I was far from the first person to pitch "Let's save money by redressing the DS9 sets as another station."

 

[TGTheodore]

Although on second thought, I imagine I was far from the first person to pitch "Let's save money by redressing the DS9 sets as another station."

My gosh, in over ten years of pitching I gave up counting how many times similar elements of "mine" popped up in subsequent episodes. Eventually, you just chalk it up to being on the same wavelength in a limited universe.

Granted if something were almost exactly like mine, I'd have taken a very close look at the timeframe in which their episode came about and who the credited writer was, but for one or two basic elements, I'd just drive myself crazy if I didn't let it go ...

--Ted

 

[BrotherBenny]

I think Ellison is a complete ass and likes to sue others for possibly-imagined slights against his writing than actually, you know, doing some more of his own.

Mr. E is a fantastically gifted writer of genre fiction with a career that's older than most who post in this forum (by far). He is cantankerous and doesn't suffer fools or thieves.

There isn't a scifi writer alive who wouldn't give their teeth to have Harlan's career. Hell, there probably isn't a writer who wouldn't want it.

He isn't the only one who saw the "similarities" between his work and Cameron's and NOBODY pays people to "go away." They pay them to make the suit go away because a judge makes them. No movie studio in history has given up a single penny to a writer they didn't have to.

And not always then.

For clarification, H.E.'s stuff may be good, I've read the odd story over the years and it is pretty good, but a writer is only as good as the readers he/she has. If an absolutely brilliant writer has eleven readers, then he's nothing, if a mediocre writer has in excess of millions of readers for every book, then she's hot property. Just as actors find their careers in the toilet for screwing up, so do writers. Ellison is an ass, and the fact that I can't find anything of his published in the last FIVE years is kind of testament to that.

 

[Christopher]

My gosh, in over ten years of pitching I gave up counting how many times similar elements of "mine" popped up in subsequent episodes. Eventually, you just chalk it up to being on the same wavelength in a limited universe.

Oh, of course. "We're already doing that one" is the most common reason pitches are rejected. And it happened to me more than once. On my first VGR pitch, one of my ideas involved Kes going through a sort of adolescence and having psionic power surges whose effects were similar to what we saw in "The Gift." I assume in retrospect that they rejected it because they were already doing "The Gift," but they couldn't tell me without giving Kes's departure away. And in that same pitch, it turned out that one of the ideas I proposed (which was actually reworked from my DS9 spec script) was similar to an original movie idea that Joe Menosky was developing.

 

[Therin of Andor]

In his Lessons from a Lifetime of Writing, he advises rookies to look for agents and/or publishers that are willing to take a chance.

The point being, that if your manuscript is so amazing then the agent will be willing to "take a chance" because they know they can sell it. You won't have to cajole them - or even pay them - to look at your work and shop it around. (You don't pay your agent until after they secure you a contract, BTW.)

The alternative, of course, is to write short stories for magazines and anthologies.

Or novel manuscripts for publishers who don't insist on agents, but be prepared for your manuscript to sit on a slush pile.

Since the only Trek publisher out there is Pocket, that leaves agents and short stories. Aaaand... if you're broke on non-Trek story ideas (like most fans, i'll wager), that kinda rules out the last option.

??? You think real writers can only write in one sector of one genre? The idea is to try lots of things.

So, where can rookies like myself find a good agent, hmm?

The moment you write a truly great manuscript. They'll be falling over you.

how do you find someone who's "willing to take a chance on a rookie"?

Get some short stories published. Or a full novel that gets noticed on a slush pile. And do some writing classes, join a writers' group, do lots of networking with other people who are working at getting published. Once your manuscript is ready, there'll be plenty of people recommending you to their agent.