I hate when that happens.
Aspiring writers?
- Thread starter Nerdius Maximus
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I hate when that happens.
Of course. Everyone says that. But how would you feel if a ST movie came out, made an absolute fortune, and it had the exact storyline of something you once posted to a bbs?
(It doesn't even have to be a good movie, or even make money. Christopher Reeve was accused of stealing a storyline for "Superman IV: The Quest for Peace".)
How would the screenwriter feel if people started accusing him or her of stealing said idea, even though they'd never read it?
Sure, which is why you can't copyright an idea for a piece of fiction. the skill is in the writing, rewriting and editing.
I think the point is, talented writers could turn most ideas into silk purses. Many novel manuscripts end up on slush piles, or hidden in bottom drawers, and most of them are sows' ears.
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If you did have an idea for a story, but you know you could never actually write it yourself, is there anyway you could give or sell the idea to Paramount or Pocket or whoever?
I'm not saying I have such an idea or want to do that, I was just wondering if such a thing would be possible in theory.
I'm not saying I have such an idea or want to do that, I was just wondering if such a thing would be possible in theory.
There's no shortage of ideas coming in to the publisher or the studio, and a lot of those ideas are going to resemble each other. (The single most common reason why TV story pitches are rejected is "We're already doing that one.") So there's no such thing as just "an idea" that you can give away, no bare-bones concept that's uniquely yours and nobody else has ever thought of. What makes a story is the work that goes into turning an idea into a viable outline and then a publishable book. You have to do the work to do that -- or collaborate with someone who does. And if that someone gets paid for their work based on your idea, then you deserve to get paid too. It shouldn't work any other way, because that devalues the work of writing and undermines the market. (If the publishers or studios could just get writing for free from amateurs, where's their incentive to pay fair wages to those of us who do it for a living?) Stories are things of value, things you deserve compensation for.
And of course there's a way to sell it -- that's what we writers do for a living, after all -- but they won't take it just because you offer it to them. You'd be competing with hundreds or thousands of other people, and even most of the proven professionals still have a low probability of success.
Besides -- not to sound harsh, but if you "know you could never actually write it yourself," then the idea probably isn't worth much anyway. People who don't have writing experience generally don't have a good sense of what constitutes a full-fledged story idea. That's not condescension, it's personal experience. When I just started out, I thought I was coming up with great ideas, but when I gained more experience and looked back on them, I realized they were superficial, incomplete, often quite dull. It takes years of hard work and practice to learn how to put a solid story together, especially a story that's strong enough to compete with the hundreds of others on the slush pile, stories that come from experienced pros. If you've never written and don't believe you could, then whatever seed of an idea you have probably falls far short of being an actual, unique, viable story. At best it's the beginnings of one.
And of course there's a way to sell it -- that's what we writers do for a living, after all -- but they won't take it just because you offer it to them. You'd be competing with hundreds or thousands of other people, and even most of the proven professionals still have a low probability of success.
Besides -- not to sound harsh, but if you "know you could never actually write it yourself," then the idea probably isn't worth much anyway. People who don't have writing experience generally don't have a good sense of what constitutes a full-fledged story idea. That's not condescension, it's personal experience. When I just started out, I thought I was coming up with great ideas, but when I gained more experience and looked back on them, I realized they were superficial, incomplete, often quite dull. It takes years of hard work and practice to learn how to put a solid story together, especially a story that's strong enough to compete with the hundreds of others on the slush pile, stories that come from experienced pros. If you've never written and don't believe you could, then whatever seed of an idea you have probably falls far short of being an actual, unique, viable story. At best it's the beginnings of one.
I've been to several writers' workshops with David Gerrold and he says that fans approach him all the time to say, "David, I have a wonderful idea for a Star Trek/science fiction episode/novel/movie. Would you be able to write it for/with me?" (They often add, "... and we'll split the money".)
The thing is, David Gerrold himself has hundreds of ideas floating in his own head, and he'll never get the chance to write them all. Why should he set aside his time and energy to help someone else - sometimes a total stranger - get an idea into print? (Not to mention why he should consider splitting the advance and royalties with someone else.) Even if the "idea" is being offered free of charge, he doesn't need it.
I'm sure many other (all?) authors get similar approaches.
A few times it seemed I had found myself a writing partner (not necessarily more experienced than myself), and suddenly I'd have all these fantasies of two people sitting at a computer together and the ideas and passages of text just flowing - but collaboration is probably as much of a lucky accident as getting a good idea for a story on paper by yourself.
The dedication needed to write can result in extended hours of solitude, not to mention literary skill. It takes time, and people often look for shortcuts. I get very jealous when I hear successful collaborators talking about how they support each other. It sounds like such fun, but generally we only hear the good bits. I'm sure there is much more to it, behind the "fun".
^ Ian, I suspect you are correct in surmising that many writers are approached by people who have an idea for a story or book, who want the writer to put it down on paper and then share the proceeds with them. I certainly have had it happen several times in my own life. I often think of telling the person approaching me that I have a great idea for somebody they can box; they simply have to fight that person in the ring, and then we can split the purse.
Is it Uwe Boll?
I've had this story idea that has been rattling around in my brain since I graduated high school in 1989. It is not Trek related but parts have been inspired by Trek. I started it and got a friend involved and we have a lot written out but mostly ideas and outlines. I can see it as a movie in my head but I can't get it out. I wish I knew someone who was a good writer and could pull it out of me.
Ah wishful thinking.
Ah wishful thinking.
Sorry, I've been away for so long, real life has ben keeping me busy.
Well, I actually meant what I said. I wouldn't be upset if someone came up with the same idea. Also, there's no way I could prove someone stole it from a forum post of mine. So, legal action would not be worth pursuing or even practical.
This reminds me of something from X-Men 2. In the scene when Magneto escapes, he uses his powers to pull all the iron from the guard's blood, killing him. An old friend of mine had that idea for Magneto and was thrilled someone finally thought of that and put it into an X-Men story. I have to admit, that was a pretty damn cool idea. Not only does it fit in with Magneto's character, it's also suitably malevolent.
Of course. Everyone says that. But how would you feel if a ST movie came out, made an absolute fortune, and it had the exact storyline of something you once posted to a bbs?
(It doesn't even have to be a good movie, or even make money. Christopher Reeve was accused of stealing a storyline for "Superman IV: The Quest for Peace".)
How would the screenwriter feel if people started accusing him or her of stealing said idea, even though they'd never read it?
Well, I actually meant what I said. I wouldn't be upset if someone came up with the same idea. Also, there's no way I could prove someone stole it from a forum post of mine. So, legal action would not be worth pursuing or even practical.
This reminds me of something from X-Men 2. In the scene when Magneto escapes, he uses his powers to pull all the iron from the guard's blood, killing him. An old friend of mine had that idea for Magneto and was thrilled someone finally thought of that and put it into an X-Men story. I have to admit, that was a pretty damn cool idea. Not only does it fit in with Magneto's character, it's also suitably malevolent.
Which doesn't change copyright law.
Well, that happens all the time. Which is why you can't just copyright "an idea".
You say you don't care, but not everyone says that. And the rules apply to everyone to save the studios from any possibility of litigation.
And situations change. For example, a friend of Harlan Ellison once heard about the writers of "The Terminator" boasting in an interview how their original script was inspired by an old Harlan Ellison story. They dropped the "harmless" anecdote into an interview out of genuine fondness for the story, but since it was the story that actually inspired them to make a blockbuster movie, then they actually owed Harlan Ellison a screen credit and some $$$$$$.
One day you might be a big name writer. Or, conversely, one day you might be down on your luck - and watching some group of writers making a motza on an idea of yours, which you published, even if in an open forum. Maybe they'll even be boasting about the day they read it. It's still a dated piece of writing, attached to your identity, and is likely to be traceable and provable as yours.
Even if you don't wish to pursue it, maybe one day your estate will. And studios have to protect themselves against these possibilities. Even the possible threat of legal action can bring them adverse publicity, because it makes them look like they were negligent.
If those guys actually knew anything about Harlan Ellison, they would have kept their mouths shut. That guy is know n for being quite cantankerous and very adversarial. That's probably why Hollyweird doesn't make more of his stories into movies and TV Shows.
Also, you need not worry, I won't be posting any other ideas here in this thread.
actually Cameron swore up and down that he created the Terminator idea himself. Ellison saw the movie, loved it, went home and called his lawyer. Cameron agreed to Ellison getting a credit on the video and paying him some money so he could get Ellison off his back. (SFX #172 August 2008, page 55)
Actually, Cameron told Starlog magazine he ripped off a couple of Outer Limits episodes. He swore up and down he came up with the idea after he was sued. And if you'd ever seen "Demon With a Glass Hand" and "Soldier," you'd know that Cameron stole almost everything from the two episodes and combined them to come up with Terminator. Ellison is completely right on this one.
I think Ellison is a complete ass and likes to sue others for possibly-imagined slights against his writing than actually, you know, doing some more of his own.
Um... the man has been prolific for his entire career. See: http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/e/harlan-ellison/
Actually he's half right- Terminator is basically one part Soldier, and the other part (the actual Terminator machines part) is from Philip K Dick's "Second Variety" - which itself was made into a Peter Weller movie called Screamers, and is the target of a veiled reference in the Bond movie The Living Daylights. (the reference to a child-looking assassin who uses an explosive teddy bear)
More proof of Ellison's point that everyone is entitled to an informed opinion. He didn't just sue over Terminator, he won, because the facts were so obviously on his side. Nothing "imagined" about it.
I've only got 25 or 30 or so of Ellison's books. Not bad for a guy who's spent his life filing lawsuits instead of writing.
Yeah, the guy seems like a complete ass in some respects, and yeah, he's litigious sometimes when he might not need to be, and yeah, he's way behind deadline on a lot of projects. That doesn't make him wrong in this case.
Okay guys, let's veer away from the "Bash Harlan Ellison" discussion that's going on here and get back on topic.
final comment: Ellison didn't win, Cameron gave in to shut him up.
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