Asian confusion

[Nerys Ghemor]

Another resource that helps with various ethnic types, and that I think was done in a very respectful manner, are these tutorials by majnouna over at deviantART. Here you learn how to properly draw people of various ethnic and racial groups, as well as about many of these groups' most ancient standards of beauty and other cultural tidbits.

http://majnouna.deviantart.com/art/Guide-to-Human-Types-part-1-32046017
http://majnouna.deviantart.com/art/Guide-to-Human-Types-part-2-33220929
http://majnouna.deviantart.com/art/Guide-to-Human-Types-part-3-34877428

This really helped me correct a lot of problems I had in accurately reflecting people the way I wanted to in portrait drawings. It also made me able to spot where people are from very easily.

 

[sbk1234]

I guess Calculon was busy.

Seriously, unless I'm mistaken, many people are confused between the terms Nationality and ethnicity. Nationality refers to the Nation or country a person is from. I would ethnically be indestinguishable from someone from a nation like Canada, France, England, Russia, Australia, Poland, and many others. However, my nationality is none of these. Ethnicity refers to the physical traits one has that distinguish him as part of that ethnic group.
For example, one can be Black as an ethnicity, but American, Canadian, French, British, and so on as a nationality.

Also, ignorant question here. Please clarify for me. Is there a physical difference between people of different Oriental groups, such as Japanese, Chinese, Korean. In other words, without knowing one's cultural background, could someone physically see the difference between a Japanese person and a Chinese person?

Just an FYI: in the US and Canada, using the term "Oriental" to describe people is considered antiquated, negative, and ultimately offensive. This movement started in the 60s and 70s when Asian Americans identified the term with American politicians trying to paint all Asians as "others," considering things like the Vietnam War and tensions with China, and echoes of America historically trying to paint the Chinese and Japanese Yellow Peril (WWII propaganda being among the most famous examples).

Using the term Asian and/or Pacific Islander, depending on ethnicity, as descriptor is preferable. For many Asians, the term "oriental" is synonymous with the N-word.

No intention to offend. I chose the term "Oriental" rather than "Asian" since I saw an ethnic difference in people from this region from people from elsewhere in Asia, such as India. I really do try to be sensitive to people's feelings in matters like these, so if I offended, again, I'm genuinely sorry.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I guess Calculon was busy.

Seriously, unless I'm mistaken, many people are confused between the terms Nationality and ethnicity. Nationality refers to the Nation or country a person is from. I would ethnically be indestinguishable from someone from a nation like Canada, France, England, Russia, Australia, Poland, and many others. However, my nationality is none of these. Ethnicity refers to the physical traits one has that distinguish him as part of that ethnic group.
For example, one can be Black as an ethnicity, but American, Canadian, French, British, and so on as a nationality.

Also, ignorant question here. Please clarify for me. Is there a physical difference between people of different Oriental groups, such as Japanese, Chinese, Korean. In other words, without knowing one's cultural background, could someone physically see the difference between a Japanese person and a Chinese person?

Just an FYI: in the US and Canada, using the term "Oriental" to describe people is considered antiquated, negative, and ultimately offensive. This movement started in the 60s and 70s when Asian Americans identified the term with American politicians trying to paint all Asians as "others," considering things like the Vietnam War and tensions with China, and echoes of America historically trying to paint the Chinese and Japanese Yellow Peril (WWII propaganda being among the most famous examples).

Using the term Asian and/or Pacific Islander, depending on ethnicity, as descriptor is preferable. For many Asians, the term "oriental" is synonymous with the N-word.

Me being Taiwanese, I don't find it offensive. So I think it's only those who are over sensitive that would find it offensive. I doubt it would offend that many Asians or even Chinese folk.

 

[Forbin]

Watch some early episodes of Hawaii 5-0 from the 60s. They constantly had Asian characters played by non-Asian Hollywood actors. Both Montalban and Mark Lenard played Japanese with fake eyelids.

On the other hand, I gather that since the show was actually shot in Hawaii, they did feature a fair number of actual Asian or Pacific Islander actors, certainly more than most shows of the era.

They did indeed. But in the early seasons (I just finished a complete rewatch of the the series, one ep a week over the last 5 years!), it seemed that any MAIN story character was usually played by a non-Asian TV actor like the above-mentioned fellas. 2ndary parts were often Asian TV actors like Phiilp Ahn or James Hong. Background actors were often local Hawaiian talent. Naturally there were exceptions (female Asian parts were usually female Asians like Nancy Quan or France Nuyen). In later seasons it got better, but early on there were a lot of fake epicanthic folds on display!

 

[Christopher]

No intention to offend. I chose the term "Oriental" rather than "Asian" since I saw an ethnic difference in people from this region from people from elsewhere in Asia, such as India.

The preferred term there would be East Asian.

They did indeed. But in the early seasons (I just finished a complete rewatch of the the series, one ep a week over the last 5 years!), it seemed that any MAIN story character was usually played by a non-Asian TV actor like the above-mentioned fellas. 2ndary parts were often Asian TV actors like Phiilp Ahn or James Hong. Background actors were often local Hawaiian talent. Naturally there were exceptions (female Asian parts were usually female Asians like Nancy Quan or France Nuyen). In later seasons it got better, but early on there were a lot of fake epicanthic folds on display!

That's not surprising. I suspected that would be the case, but I haven't seen the show since I was very young.

 

[Forbin]

I occasionally use the word "Oriental" occidentally.

 

[Forbin]

Oh yeah - I was in my favorite deli, owned by a Korean fella and his Chinese wife, when a curious customer asked the owner if he was Japanese. He was visibly offended!

 

[Gary7]

^ That bugs me. Why should anybody be offended by such a mistake, especially when it's easy to make for an outsider? If someone thought I looked like I'm Russian (and I really don't--if anything, French, German or Norwegian), I couldn't care less.

People being easily offended is a continuing epidemic across human cultures... enough where some people will kill you for your offense (you know who).

 

[Christopher]

Oh yeah - I was in my favorite deli, owned by a Korean fella and his Chinese wife, when a curious customer asked the owner if he was Japanese. He was visibly offended!

^ That bugs me. Why should anybody be offended by such a mistake, especially when it's easy to make for an outsider? If someone thought I looked like I'm Russian (and I really don't--if anything, French, German or Norwegian), I couldn't care less.

There is a lot of bad blood between the Japanese and Korean peoples. The two nations have a long history of wars and invasions, most recently the Japanese invasion and occupation of Korea (and other countries) in WWII, and even today, Koreans living in Japan are subject to a lot of institutionalized discrimination.

 

[Forbin]

^That's what I assumed.

Also, what the hell business is it of the customer to ask such a personal question?

 

[Christopher]

I don't think it's that personal to ask where someone is from. It's a pretty routine question when getting acquainted with someone. The only problem was making an assumption instead of just asking.

 

[Forbin]

I depends, I guess. Getting acquainted is one thing. The way the guy walked into the store and said "Gimme and ham and Swiss on a roll. What are you, Japanese? Chinese?" seemed kinda rude to me at the time.

 

[Christopher]

Oh, I see. That was rather rude.

 

[Shawnster]

Oh yeah - I was in my favorite deli, owned by a Korean fella and his Chinese wife, when a curious customer asked the owner if he was Japanese. He was visibly offended!

I think it's kinda silly that, by the 23rd and 24th centuries and after another World War and the Eugenics Wars that everyone from Earth is still considered pretty homogenous.

In my idea for a fan fic I had a female Captain of mixed Asian decent. One of her parents would have been mixed Chinese/Japanese ancestry and her other parent would have been mixed Korean/Vietnamese ancestry (or some other multiple combination for both parents). She would have spent summer and winter vacations at her grandparents and, as a result, would have a vast and varied background and interest in different Asian cultures, customs, foods and dialects.

 

[Wally]

For Star Trek. I don't mind.

This is a fictional universe taking place hundreds of years in the future. After a World War that has obliterated a decent chunk of civilization, contact with aliens, and quick and near ubiqitous travel.

Over time I would imagine ethnic breakdowns of countries and entire regions could be radically different than they are now in only a few years time.

Intermarriage and old prejudices dying away, and it being no big deal to pick up and move to another planet, much less another country. No reason a Brit couldn't be French. No reason there couldn't be a sizable Japanese population in China. Heck, I think there is little info that certain countries even exist anymore.

So, basically. I don't let it bother me. Maybe if a series was taking place a little closer to now, like right after First Contact. But in the 23rd/24th centuries.