Spoilers Arrow - Season 5

[Gryffindorian]

So now all the team's back except Green Arrow, which is sort of what I've been thinking might be a sensible way to go -- let Oliver be mayor full-time and have Spartan lead the team. Even aside from Ollie not being "there yet" (and GA being wanted for murder), it kinda makes sense for him not to divide his focus between two very demanding jobs.

I'd been thinking that Anatoly seemed incongruously benevolent in the flashbacks. Now we get the explanation for the difference -- he really was trying to be better then, but the pressures of running the Bratva without Oliver by his side made him lose his way. Sort of the reverse of Ollie's journey from the darkness back to the light.

Odd to hear Curtis say that ninja-style hood/mask made his face itch. You mean that weird T-shaped thing he has glued to his face doesn't make it itch? I guess we're supposed to think it's made of some special high-tech material or something.

Also, we get confirmation that Team Arrow normally uses "trank ammo" in their guns. I'd had that impression, but I hadn't been sure.

I didn't particularly like Anatoly's attitude in this episode. Oliver asked him a favor: kill Chase. First thing he asked in return was a "down payment" from Ollie. Seriously? Oliver as a member of Bratva had done everything he was told in the past, not the least of which was to kill other people. When Diggle finally convinced Ollie they could take down Chase, and he subsequently told Bratva to stand down, the Russian leader refused. It's like their friendship quickly went out the window. Now to me Anatoly is just a common thug, but as you said, he lost his way when Oliver left.

I liked how Felicity and Curtis were instrumental in disabling Chase's scrambler, thus providing solid evidence that revealed him to be Prometheus. Let's see how he gets out of this one.

 

[Jax]

They really need to be less sloppy with the action scenes, he orders Bratva to kill hostages and then don't, then they just wait watching Team Arrow fight in front of them and then at the end stand out in the open instead of behind the hostages for cover allowing them to be easily picked off.

Sloppy.

Also when did Chase gain psychic phone texting powers?

 

[JasonJ]

They really need to be less sloppy with the action scenes, he orders Bratva to kill hostages and then don't, then they just wait watching Team Arrow fight in front of them and then at the end stand out in the open instead of behind the hostages for cover allowing them to be easily picked off.

Sloppy.

Also when did Chase gain psychic phone texting powers?

I hear ya... the delayed fighting to serve the timing of the plot gets too obvious sometimes.. Like when 5 guys are fighting one hero, they only attack one or two at a time. Gang up on the single dude or dudette and pommel them to the ground!

As to Chase preemptively knowing about the Federal agents.... I'm thinking that he was smart enough to know their protocol... and that it was a matter of time. He likely knew that a discreet text was not the same as a phone call to an agent for normal information. At which point it went all psycho killer rage machine.

He truly is a dangerous villain... it's disturbing just how vicious he is.

 

[Christopher]

I didn't particularly like Anatoly's attitude in this episode. Oliver asked him a favor: kill Chase. First thing he asked in return was a "down payment" from Ollie. Seriously? Oliver as a member of Bratva had done everything he was told in the past, not the least of which was to kill other people. When Diggle finally convinced Ollie they could take down Chase, and he subsequently told Bratva to stand down, the Russian leader refused. It's like their friendship quickly went out the window. Now to me Anatoly is just a common thug, but as you said, he lost his way when Oliver left.

I think part of the problem it seemed incongruous was that Anatoly's attitude now was an outgrowth of what we've seen of him when he appeared before in the present, like in the episode where they went to Russia and some earlier episode in another season. So it's been established before that he's more of a tough mob businessman now. But we were seeing him in flashback at his most optimistic juxtaposed with the darker person he is now, so if we didn't remember what we've seen of the intervening evolution, it felt like an abrupt change.

As to Chase preemptively knowing about the Federal agents.... I'm thinking that he was smart enough to know their protocol... and that it was a matter of time. He likely knew that a discreet text was not the same as a phone call to an agent for normal information. At which point it went all psycho killer rage machine.

Also, as a League of Assassins-trained fighter, he's probably constantly aware of the body language and movement of the people around him, and he would've sensed the agents' tension when they got the news.

 

[LJones41]

If Anatoly has lost his way, so has Oliver. Bringing in the Russian mob to committ murder on American soil? Really Oliver?

And by the way, will Oliver really learn anything about himself from this story arc, or will the showrunners present the preivous episode as a bullshit scenario in which he merely got his mind played with by Chase? If it's the latter, then I'm through with this storyline..

 

[dahj]

That was a decent episode, it would have been much better if this was the first time we've seen Dig talk sense into Oliver, so I couldn't help feeling it was a bit "been there, done that". Nevertheless, I liked where it ended and am really looking forward to the final stretch.

I also liked the "new Dig" conversation between the newbies, the show has been really good this season at infusing humour and heart even in the darkest moments.

I'd been thinking that Anatoly seemed incongruously benevolent in the flashbacks. Now we get the explanation for the difference

Yeah, that explanation made sense... I much prefer good Anatoly over bad Anatoly, and it was a bit heartbreaking seeing their friendship at a high point and being (almost) completely dissolved (there's still hope for Anatoly, right?).

Also when did Chase gain psychic phone texting powers?

Remember, he's ten steps ahead of you and you don't even know which game he's playing!

 

[Beagleman]

Yeah, that explanation made sense... I much prefer good Anatoly over bad Anatoly, and it was a bit heartbreaking seeing their friendship at a high point and being (almost) completely dissolved (there's still hope for Anatoly, right?).

Remember, he's ten steps ahead of you and you don't even know which game he's playing!

I find Anatoly's arc fascinating and tragic, I too hope there's still hope for him.
Chase is Berlantiverse Batman, think about it!

 

[Christopher]

Chase is Berlantiverse Batman, think about it!

That's not far from the truth. In the comics, Grant Morrison created Prometheus to be the anti-Batman -- equal to Batman in skill, intelligence, and mastermind-level advance planning, but evil. He even has an evil-opposite origin story to Batman, swearing vengeance on the forces of justice because the police killed his criminal parents. (Which is an idea that Mike W. Barr had tried decades earlier with a character called the Wraith, whose parents were gunned down on the same day as Thomas and Martha Wayne.) Since Green Arrow is the Arrowverse's Batman stand-in, they've made Prometheus the evil reflection of GA instead.

 

[LJones41]

I find Anatoly's arc fascinating and tragic, I too hope there's still hope for him.

Don't you mean Oliver, as well? He did arrange for Anatoly to enter into the U.S. in order to murder Chase.

 

[Beagleman]

Nah, I don't think there ever was hope for Oliver, he'll be sitting in the Arrow-cave depressed, brooding, regretting long after I have drunk myself to death.

 

[LJones41]

Nah, I don't think there ever was hope for Oliver, he'll be sitting in the Arrow-cave depressed, brooding, regretting long after I have drunk myself to death.

You're probably right.

 

[Marc]

Don't you mean Oliver, as well? He did arrange for Anatoly to enter into the U.S. in order to murder Chase.

But how much of that was Oliver trying to come up with a way to take out Chase with an unexpected move albeit possibly thinking things through?

Also I don't think he realised how much he Anatoly had changed or how the bratva had once again descended into mob thuggery. Until Oliver was told about how the two drugs were being mixed he probably thought they would be used by the Anatoly et al to help - just has what he had helped steal just before leaving Russia had.

 

[Christopher]

Also I don't think he realised how much he Anatoly had changed or how the bratva had once again descended into mob thuggery. Until Oliver was told about how the two drugs were being mixed he probably thought they would be used by the Anatoly et al to help - just has what he had helped steal just before leaving Russia had.

Yeah, that was the fakeout. When his men were stealing diabetes medicine, it could be assumed that it was a "Robin Hood" thing like in the flashback, stealing meds for needy children back home. But, wham, it turns out that people are being deprived of life-saving medicines in order to make an addictive drug, and it turns out Anatoly's in a much darker place than Oliver assumed.

 

[DarKush]

For clarification, the Mike W. Barr anti-Batman was called The Wrath. They brought him back in the New 52 in a story line I wish Arrow would adopt.

As for the episode, I liked it. Particularly the ending. They really went there and Prometheus just got sadistic. I'm liking what they are doing every week now with him. They keep upping his villainy and it's really good. He's about to pass Dark Archer on the list for my second favorite villain for the entire series.

Overall I thought the episode was good, not great, but good. We've seen Diggle as the conscience of Team Arrow before so this episode went into some well-trod ground, but I liked how Diggle used his own predicament earlier in the season to help Oliver see reason. I was hoping the conversation with Anatoly that he would mention that perhaps his desperation is being triggered by something worse or someone worse out there (Kovar) and I had also hoped in their final exchange that Oliver had remarked how Anatoly had become a beast. I would've loved it. But that being said, I wouldn't mind at all if Kovar was the Arrowverse version of the KGBeast instead of Anatoly. I've liked the Oliver-Anatoly friendship and hope they can mend fences. I don't want every major villain Arrow faces to be from his past or his connected to him personally.

 

[Christopher]

I had also hoped in their final exchange that Oliver had remarked how Anatoly had become a beast. I would've loved it.

Maybe even a cagey beast!

 

[LJones41]

But how much of that was Oliver trying to come up with a way to take out Chase with an unexpected move albeit possibly thinking things through?

Why are you making excuses for Oliver? Because he's the hero?

Do many fans of television shows and movies always do this? Do they always make excuses for the fictional hero/heroine whenever the latter makes a serious mistake or commit a crime?

Now, I'm sure some people will say that it's a story. I've noticed that they always use this excuse when the protagonist commit a crime/make a mistake. But when a not-so-popular supporting character or the antagonist do the same, these same fans will go on and on about the immorality or stupidity of said character.

Since this kind of mentality has been going on for a long time, I guess it will never end.

 

[Tuskin38]

/r/batman today is Arrow themed lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/

As always, is committed to a brooding vigilante without powers, who is rich and has skills and technology and lots of people dress at him at conventions. A strong independent woman who supports him is on the sidebar, just as she has been for the past month.

 

[Phoenix219]

But that being said, I wouldn't mind at all if Kovar was the Arrowverse version of the KGBeast instead of Anatoly. I've liked the Oliver-Anatoly friendship and hope they can mend fences. I don't want every major villain Arrow faces to be from his past or his connected to him personally.

That was actually my thought when they showed Kovar still alive.... and considering the grade of the actor playing him... Kovar would make a fantastic adversary as the KGBeast, while keeping Anatoly somewhat clean. It would be no worse then Chase being Prometheus instead of Vigilante.

 

[DarKush]

^
I wonder if the Vigilante on the show will wind up being the real Adrian Chase? I mean they have so far not explained why Prometheus chose that name and the show made sure to let everyone know that Adrian Chase was just an alias used by Prometheus. I got a feeling-more a hope-that Vigilante is Chase.

And it would be great if Kovar was KGBeast. If they do that I hope they save him for next year and not shoe horn in into the final episodes this year. Prometheus deserves a full or close to full season to be the big bad. I hope they also do more with Artemis (Dark Speedy) as well. Perhaps they are saving up Thea to have a Speedy v. Artemis bout near or in the season finale.

Also for season 6, I also wouldn't mind if Talia was the main villain either. Perhaps Talia and KGBeast working together or something.

 

[Phoenix219]

^
I wonder if the Vigilante on the show will wind up being the real Adrian Chase? I mean they have so far not explained why Prometheus chose that name and the show made sure to let everyone know that Adrian Chase was just an alias used by Prometheus. I got a feeling-more a hope-that Vigilante is Chase.

And it would be great if Kovar was KGBeast. If they do that I hope they save him for next year and not shoe horn in into the final episodes this year. Prometheus deserves a full or close to full season to be the big bad. I hope they also do more with Artemis (Dark Speedy) as well. Perhaps they are saving up Thea to have a Speedy v. Artemis bout near or in the season finale.

Also for season 6, I also wouldn't mind if Talia was the main villain either. Perhaps Talia and KGBeast working together or something.

I figured the main villains for this year were going to be Talia and Prometheus, but its running a bit late in the year. I wouldn't mind KGBeast and Vigilante both being left for next year. It would be kind of like Seaosn 1 and 2, introducing Slade one year, making him the big bad the next. I could totally handle that if the set up is KGBeast. It would work with Anatoly, but I would rather keep him as a wild card, and end with he and Oliver finishing what they started out in this seasons Flashbacks.