That would be Savitar.
Spoilers Arrow - Season 5
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Isn't the new Flash antagonists name "Savitar"?
...and ninja'd.
...and ninja'd.
Alchemy is voiced by Tobin Bell, who played "Jigsaw" in the Saw movie series. Degra was Randy Oglesby.
I thought ol' Dolph Lundgren did a pretty good job as Constantin.
And could they say "serial killer" one more time? Though apparently not telling people the truth is much worse.
And could they say "serial killer" one more time? Though apparently not telling people the truth is much worse.
My review of So It Begins:
I was really enjoying last night's episode, and then the writers went and soured things slightly with the narratively unnecessary (IMO) and illogical revelation that Quentin is Prometheus. Unfortunately, what's done is done, and I'm just going to have to see if they come up with a decent explanation.
I liked getting to see the full team in action handling something that wasn't a massive life-or-death situation, mainly because it gave us a chance to explore their characters a bit.
This came up in conversation elsewhere, but there's no chance in heck that Artemis is only 17, and it's bad writing, casting, and characterization if she's supposed to be. I did like that she was the one most affected by the revelations concerning Oliver's previous methods, though.
Oliver has chosen, for whatever reason, to take a bit of a step backwards towards the person he'd been in Season 1, and so it didn't bother me or strike me as odd or out-of-character for him to not initially tell the new recruits about Prometheus or about his own previous inclinations towards killing as the first (and only) resort, although I am glad that Diggle and he had a heart-to-heart about the whole situation.
I didn't really notice this in previous episodes, but they're really just "treading water" with Felicity, and I'm hoping that changes, especially now that she's told Lt. Malone about her secret crimefighting activities.
I like Thea in her role as Oliver's Chief of Staff, but it felt like the writers were trying to 'shoehorn' her into a slightly more significant role in the story by having her be so focused on Quentin's private activities that she'd go shopping around his desk, and yet not follow that story through to its obvious and most sensible conclusion, which is to A) tell Oliver the truth about the situation and B) show her escorting him (Quentin) to an AA meeting.
I was a little disappointed that they went back to the flashbacks being unrelated to what was happening in the present, but I like Anatoly enough as a character and am kntrigued enough by the introduction of Dolph Lungdren's Kovar that I can forgive that and focus on other stuff.
If it weren't for the end reveal, I would've given this episode a spot at the top as the best episodes of the season, but as it stands now, it ends up as my third-favorite behind Legacy and Human Target.
I was really enjoying last night's episode, and then the writers went and soured things slightly with the narratively unnecessary (IMO) and illogical revelation that Quentin is Prometheus. Unfortunately, what's done is done, and I'm just going to have to see if they come up with a decent explanation.
I liked getting to see the full team in action handling something that wasn't a massive life-or-death situation, mainly because it gave us a chance to explore their characters a bit.
This came up in conversation elsewhere, but there's no chance in heck that Artemis is only 17, and it's bad writing, casting, and characterization if she's supposed to be. I did like that she was the one most affected by the revelations concerning Oliver's previous methods, though.
Oliver has chosen, for whatever reason, to take a bit of a step backwards towards the person he'd been in Season 1, and so it didn't bother me or strike me as odd or out-of-character for him to not initially tell the new recruits about Prometheus or about his own previous inclinations towards killing as the first (and only) resort, although I am glad that Diggle and he had a heart-to-heart about the whole situation.
I didn't really notice this in previous episodes, but they're really just "treading water" with Felicity, and I'm hoping that changes, especially now that she's told Lt. Malone about her secret crimefighting activities.
I like Thea in her role as Oliver's Chief of Staff, but it felt like the writers were trying to 'shoehorn' her into a slightly more significant role in the story by having her be so focused on Quentin's private activities that she'd go shopping around his desk, and yet not follow that story through to its obvious and most sensible conclusion, which is to A) tell Oliver the truth about the situation and B) show her escorting him (Quentin) to an AA meeting.
I was a little disappointed that they went back to the flashbacks being unrelated to what was happening in the present, but I like Anatoly enough as a character and am kntrigued enough by the introduction of Dolph Lungdren's Kovar that I can forgive that and focus on other stuff.
If it weren't for the end reveal, I would've given this episode a spot at the top as the best episodes of the season, but as it stands now, it ends up as my third-favorite behind Legacy and Human Target.
I don't believe he really is Prometheus. I don't buy that a 54-year-old ex-cop drunk enough to black out could suddenly turn into a peak-level athlete and master assassin. It's just not physiologically possible, unless he's been secretly a metahuman all these years. (Maybe if he were a Drunken Fist Kung-Fu master... naah.) I think Prometheus is trying to make Quentin think that he's Prometheus, slashing his arm and planting the weapon while he was asleep.
I liked the emphasis on rescues and protecting the public. That's what superheroes are all about to me, so I like it when stories focus more on heroes saving lives than just fighting people.
Also, both this and Supergirl this week have had some rather pointed criticisms of gun culture. I was wondering if Arrow would ever do the kind of social commentary that Supergirl and Legends have been doing, and it looks like this was an attempt at that, though kind of a heavy-handed one.
Why? The actress is only four years older than her character -- exactly the same age differential between Willa Holland and Thea Queen. Tom Welling was 24 when he debuted as the 15-year-old Clark Kent on Smallville. Most teenagers in TV have always been played by 20-somethings. And Evelyn was described as "a 16-year-old badass" in her debut episode "Canary Cry" last year, so there's no story inconsistency.
Although it glosses over the fact that she was killing people with the stolen Canary Cry when she was introduced. So she was basically doing the same thing "the Hood" did, killing multiple people in the name of what she imagined to be justice. Maybe she's so hard on Oliver because of her own guilt, but it comes off as hypocritical.
She wouldn't do the former, I think. Remember, Thea had her own drug problems in season one. That's why she talked about taking Quentin to a meeting -- because she's a recovering addict herself. And as she said, those meetings are anonymous. They can only work if the members feel free to speak openly, if they trust that the others will keep their secrets no matter what. Thea wouldn't betray that confidence casually.
I think they've been riding the "relevant flashback" train a little too hard lately. It strains credibility that everything Oliver went through 5 years ago paralleled everything he's going through now, sequentially and in the same order.
But I think there was relevance here. Oliver didn't tell the team about the List because he was ashamed of his past as a killer. His joining the Bratva and going after Kovar was the last step on turning him into that killer, into a man who believed that assassination equalled justice.
@Christopher: The writers are not doing anything, characterization-wise, to make Artemis behave like a 17-year-old, and the actress looks way older than 17, to the point that, as was the case with pretty much the entire cast of Smallville, it's not possible to take her seriously as playing somebody that young.
Willa Holland was believable as a younger teenager because the writers characterized Thea appropriately for someone of that age group and dressed her/did her makeup in such a way as to make her physically look younger, which isn't the case, IMO, with the actress playing Artemis.
Willa Holland was believable as a younger teenager because the writers characterized Thea appropriately for someone of that age group and dressed her/did her makeup in such a way as to make her physically look younger, which isn't the case, IMO, with the actress playing Artemis.
I've known 17-year-olds who were very mature and adults who were extremely childish. You can't generalize behavior based purely on chronology. Especially in the case of someone like Evelyn, who lost both her parents just last year. That's the sort of thing that can force a person to grow up quickly.
Most females have completed puberty by the age of 17, so they wouldn't change much between 17 and 21.
Here's a photo of Madison McLaughlin at 16: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3028348/mediaviewer/rm3481055744
Here's one of her at 17: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3028348/mediaviewer/rm1550626816
And here she was in her debut as Evelyn last year: https://pmctvline2.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/arrow-evelyn-artemis.png?w=619
I don't see much difference.
Yeah, I was a little shocked when they said she was only 17, she definitely didn't come across as that young to me either. As for just her appearance, she doesn't really look any older than most of the actors they cast as teenagers these days.
I really liked the callbacks to Season 1, the stuff with the list was a big surprise.
The scene of the team at the riot was really nice, one thing these shows have excelled at that the DCEU haven't really given us much of is the heroes helping and saving people.
I'm not quite sure what to make of the apparent reveal at the end, it is hard to believe that Quinton is suddenly this big ass kicking warrior. I'm not going to totally write that whole thing off until we learn more, but right now it is a bit odd.
It was nice to see Prometheus using different weapons than just the bow and arrow.
I really liked the callbacks to Season 1, the stuff with the list was a big surprise.
The scene of the team at the riot was really nice, one thing these shows have excelled at that the DCEU haven't really given us much of is the heroes helping and saving people.
I'm not quite sure what to make of the apparent reveal at the end, it is hard to believe that Quinton is suddenly this big ass kicking warrior. I'm not going to totally write that whole thing off until we learn more, but right now it is a bit odd.
It was nice to see Prometheus using different weapons than just the bow and arrow.
Again, though, she was explicitly established as 16 when she was introduced last year. This is not new information. I was actually surprised a few months ago when I heard they'd be adding her to the team this year, because of how young she was.
I'm surprised that anyone would think she doesn't look young. She looks very girlish to me. In fact, this episode was the first time she looked like a grown woman to me at all. Indeed, I assumed the actress actually was a teenager until I looked her up this morning.
I would be shocked if Lance is really Prometheus. For all the reasons Christopher already said but also how early in the season it is. These shows never reveal the Big Bad this soon.
So Oliver is a serial killer AND has contributed to the delinquency of a minor?
Let's face it, he probably did the latter a few times before he was stranded on the island...
I don't quite get why some of you have trouble believing Artemis is 17, I remembered she was in high school last season so I never assumed she was older and nothing in her characterization (or appearance) has led me to believe otherwise. Also, teenage sidekicks are a pretty common occurrence in the superhero genre, wasn't Roy also in his late teens when he first showed up?
I'm loving that the writers remembered Green Arrow is an archer, there's been a lot of bow and arrow action this season, and in this episode in particular with the highlights being him shooting the gun barrel, the return of parachute arrow and the tennis ball training.
I also thought it's pretty obvious Quentin is being set up, though it's kinda unclear who is Prometheus trying to convince here(except us the viewers). Will he frame Lance so that he gets arrested by the police, will he try to convince Team Arrow it's him, or is he just trying to drive him insane and even deeper into the bottle?
Looking forward to seeing more of Dolph Lundgren, though his pretty menacing entrance was kinda overshadowed by how good the rest of the episode was.
I'm loving that the writers remembered Green Arrow is an archer, there's been a lot of bow and arrow action this season, and in this episode in particular with the highlights being him shooting the gun barrel, the return of parachute arrow and the tennis ball training.
I also thought it's pretty obvious Quentin is being set up, though it's kinda unclear who is Prometheus trying to convince here(except us the viewers). Will he frame Lance so that he gets arrested by the police, will he try to convince Team Arrow it's him, or is he just trying to drive him insane and even deeper into the bottle?
Looking forward to seeing more of Dolph Lundgren, though his pretty menacing entrance was kinda overshadowed by how good the rest of the episode was.
Could Prometheus be a product of .....
Flashpoint?
Flashpoint?
Unlikely. This is season 5 of Arrow, the year where the flashbacks catch up to the start of the show. As such, it's a year where they're getting back to basics and tying into the show's original ideas again. We saw that with the return of The List last night. Whoever Prometheus is, his origin is going to be fundamentally tied to Oliver Queen's backstory, not Barry Allen's.
Maybe Prometheus is Kovar. Maybe he's even Anatoly, although Anatoly is KGBeast in the comics.
Or maybe, Prometheus is none ther than...the author of the list!!
Nobody stays dead on this show.
My random thoughts:
My question about Artemis is -- shouldn't she be in school?
I really do like Diggle's role as "dad" -- reminds me of Joe West in Flash
Yeah, I was also confused with Quentin... but definitely a whole lot more to it then what we ended the episode with....
Hmm, I wonder how the Flashbacks will end. Oliver had a beard that made it look like he was out there for several months
.
And the previews -- wow, Vigilante in 1980's costume! I believe I still have that premiere issue in the basement!
My question about Artemis is -- shouldn't she be in school?
I really do like Diggle's role as "dad" -- reminds me of Joe West in Flash
Yeah, I was also confused with Quentin... but definitely a whole lot more to it then what we ended the episode with....
Hmm, I wonder how the Flashbacks will end. Oliver had a beard that made it look like he was out there for several months
.
And the previews -- wow, Vigilante in 1980's costume! I believe I still have that premiere issue in the basement!
Oliver never bothered with school and he's the mayor now.
There's a lesson there somewhere for you kids!
