Are we seeing a pendulum swing or are we seeing the end of PC?

[Arrqh]

HP's management has been completely braindead for the better part of a decade so their leaving the consumer PC biz shouldn't be taken as a sign of anything beyond their own incompetence.

Yeah, the idea that what just happened at HP is indicative of anything in either the PC or tablet space is just not valid. Aside from HP's own long standing problems, Palm itself has been passed around like a hot potato for a long time now.

Even people crediting their failure to Apple rings hollow. The Touchpad is inferior in terms of hardware to a LOT of tablets, it was clearly poorly managed and was released at a price point that simply wasn't viable. This was HP falling over itself, pure and simple. They didn't need any help from anyone else.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

they came up with the idea first

They came up with the idea first?

 

[Marc]

Touchpads are now going places that laptops, netbooks and pc's have never gone - the pilots flight case.

United have okayed the use of iPads to replace the traditional charts and manuals that pilots have to carry each flight.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.28a184296dda6208bfa99078cd9b334d.f1&show_article=1

They expect to save about 326,000 gallons of fuel (roughly 1.2million litres) which at current prices around $3/l about $4million a year.

In a way it's chump change given the cost of running an airline but after you've bought your jets, fuel is the biggest single on going cost.

For pilots, it's going to be much easier to keep up to date and will save a few trees in the process.

 

[farmkid]

^Ah yes, great idea--except that they'll have to turn them off during the flight.

 

[Cutter John]

PC. Cold, dead fingers. Etc.

Tablets certainly have their place if you want a portable entertainment device, or just want to do simple web browsing or manage e-mail on the go. I don't see it replacing the traditional PC for doing serious work though. Well, at least without an interface that lets you add outside peripherals like a keyboard, mouse, etc.

It definately boils my butt when nearly every tech article claims that PC's are dying. I suspect they're confusing 'dying' with 'drop in sales'. After all, you can't upgrade the hardware of a pad or smartphone. If you want more power you have to spend $$$ on a replacement. Many PC owners spend a lot less by buying and installing a new part. So naturally iPads and the like bring in the bigger bucks.

 

[Marc]

^Ah yes, great idea--except that they'll have to turn them off during the flight.

Nope.

All been cleared through the FAA. They will simply be put in flight mode while the aircraft is in the air just the same as for passengers.


The only time you have to devices of during a flight are take off, landing and if the seat belt sign goes on a) so they are a distracton when people need to pay attention and b) loose objects in the cabin.

 

[farmkid]

^Ah yes, great idea--except that they'll have to turn them off during the flight.

Nope.

All been cleared through the FAA. They will simply be put in flight mode while the aircraft is in the air just the same as for passengers.


The only time you have to devices of during a flight are take off, landing and if the seat belt sign goes on a) so they are a distracton when people need to pay attention and b) loose objects in the cabin.

Sorry, forgot the smilie. My comment was a sarcastic, in case you missed it.

 

[Marc]

^Ah yes, great idea--except that they'll have to turn them off during the flight.

Nope.

All been cleared through the FAA. They will simply be put in flight mode while the aircraft is in the air just the same as for passengers.


The only time you have to devices of during a flight are take off, landing and if the seat belt sign goes on a) so they are a distracton when people need to pay attention and b) loose objects in the cabin.

Sorry, forgot the smilie. My comment was a sarcastic, in case you missed it.

the thought did cross my mind but thought a) you might not have been sarcastic and b) there are people out there who have and do make the same comment and are dead serious.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

I think some people in the industry have jumped the gun with this whole 'post-pc' business; I'd put it down to the excitement of the new tablet market. But tablets have a significant fundamental problem which is the touch only interface. No matter how much you compensate by simplifying the UI you can never make it easier to use than the standard keyboard + mouse interface. Tablets will definitely eat into the PC market but I can’t see them every replacing it but rather complementing it.

 

[mswood]

Well for the masses the specific needs that drive one to a desktop or a laptop are diminishing.

For some that point is already here, for some it will be in a few years, for others computers and the roll they play will last quite some time.

Right now I already know people that only use their Computer is to sync. They don't use it for anything else. With some tablets I am sure a couple people are already there.

And its not just tablets (that's just part of it). Units inside TV's, Tables that have computer systems built into them, ect. All moving away from the Desktop (or even the laptop) being the center of your computer needs.

Is it here yet.

Obviously not, but at some point the majority of home users will not have the need for what we typically think of a PC Computer. The only question is when does the few who currently have moved away from their PC grow to being a lot.

 

[mswood]

I mean for myself ( I don't use my laptop haven't for a couple years) and my desktop. Well its plugged to my 60 inch HDTV and my interface is my bed with wireless keyboard and mouse.

And 90% of my use is general media and surfing. Quite soon (and parts right now) it will be my tablet being the interface to connect to the TV, or to my external drives. And my desktop will be regulated to those few tasks that require more specific user interaction, and over time has various interfaces improve that number will drop and drop and drop. For me its already dropped a lot.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Though I agree a proper keyboard is superior to the virtual one on a tablet due to the force-feedback aspect (and a non-issue since lightweight bluetooth keyboards are easy to obtain), I find directly tapping the screen is far more precise than using a mouse. Sure for a first-person action game I'd rather use a mouse, but for just navigating the UI, touch is far better ergonomically.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

Well for the masses the specific needs that drive one to a desktop or a laptop are diminishing.

For some that point is already here, for some it will be in a few years, for others computers and the roll they play will last quite some time.

Right now I already know people that only use their Computer is to sync. They don't use it for anything else. With some tablets I am sure a couple people are already there.

I disagree. I think as the 'masses' become more computer literate the 'specific needs' for PCs will only increase. Common applications such as word processors still really require a better interface than touch and this will never change.

And its not just tablets (that's just part of it). Units inside TV's, Tables that have computer systems built into them, ect. All moving away from the Desktop (or even the laptop) being the center of your computer needs.

Is it here yet.

But these devices are all about consuming rather than producing. The problem is touch based interfaces are just not good enough for producing. Even writing a long email can become irritating on a virtual keyboard. Heck I just came on my PC to write this because it was just too irritating doing it on a virtual keyboard.

Obviously not, but at some point the majority of home users will not have the need for what we typically think of a PC Computer. The only question is when does the few who currently have moved away from their PC grow to being a lot.

I'm sure there will be people who can get by on just a tablet if they really want to but I doubt it will be common place to see households with no PC. Lots of regular people will still want to do things like write a CV, organise their photos, use a spread sheet to record their finances. These are everyday things that are still much easier on a mouse and keyboard with much more powerful applications available to make everything nice and easy.

I mean for myself ( I don't use my laptop haven't for a couple years) and my desktop. Well its plugged to my 60 inch HDTV and my interface is my bed with wireless keyboard and mouse.

And 90% of my use is general media and surfing. Quite soon (and parts right now) it will be my tablet being the interface to connect to the TV, or to my external drives. And my desktop will be regulated to those few tasks that require more specific user interaction, and over time has various interfaces improve that number will drop and drop and drop. For me its already dropped a lot.

I’m glad it works for you but I don’t see this setup working for everyone. In fact my friend jumped on the iPad as soon as it came out, she absolutely loved it. She went on and on about how much use she was going to get out of it and how she’d get her money’s worth. At first she did start using it far more than her macbook, but over time she slowly used it less and less to the point where she rarely bothers to charge it anymore. And she is NOT a power pc user by any stretch of the imagination!

Though I agree a proper keyboard is superior to the virtual one on a tablet due to the force-feedback aspect (and a non-issue since lightweight bluetooth keyboards are easy to obtain), I find directly tapping the screen is far more precise than using a mouse. Sure for a first-person action game I'd rather use a mouse, but for just navigating the UI, touch is far better ergonomically.

I’d have to disagree with you about the mouse, it is far more precise. There’s a reason they have to optimise the UI for touch, they have to make all the buttons bigger! Bigger buttons means less efficient use of the screen so less buttons overall. Don’t believe me? Try using touch to select text, it’s such a pain because your fingers are too big. Also with touch you have to make bigger movements. With a mouse you just make small flicks with your wrist (on my 24” screen I can easily reach everything this way) but with a touch screen you have to move your whole arm which gets much worse with bigger screens.

 

[John O.]

I didn't read through the thread but I think the OP has a massive misconception. The fact that Apple has become tremendously successful in things like iPhones, iPods, iPads, the associated service industries that are linked with iTunes and AT&T and app downloading and all that... Doesn't have a damn thing to do with "the demise of PC".

I read the topic and I was like completely confused because I'm a 26 yr old graduate student who does a lot of high end PC gaming and I couldn't remember the last person I knew who owned an MAC as their home computing solution. The Apple dominance of the mobile/PDA/iPad/netbook solution doesn't win it any contests in the PC arena. Nobody games on Macs because, well, I'm not really sure why. It used to be that games weren't released on MAC they were just released on PC. I know some people with a MacBook but they still have a PC at home, which means Apple isn't killing PC, it's just saying "hey, scoot over a little, I want some room too."

I have an iPhone4, an iPod Nano 1G and I love them both. I would buy an iPad if they weren't so ridiculously expensive, but that doesn't even remotely mean I'd get out of the PC market. My PC has a place in my life that nothing else has. I work on it, I play on it. I even use Safari on my PC because I take the best parts of Apple and leave the rest.

 

[Marc]

I don't think we'll see more people becoming computer literate. The trend is to make things easier and the technical side is hidden further and further away.

The pc era is now years old and 34 since the Apple II came out. That's a generation and pretty much anyone who's gone through school since the mid nineties has had computer exposure. At the same time the older generation are using computers more and more.

We will simply see the number grow as the population grows and the computer will simply be another gadget for the vast majority to surf the net, read their e-mail and do social networking. No real computer literacy required.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Nobody games on Macs because, well, I'm not really sure why. It used to be that games weren't released on MAC they were just released on PC.

I game on the Mac. A lot of games get multiplatform releases and the presence of the Mac App store and Steam for Mac are only increasing the number of titles.

Just because you and your friends don't play games on Macs doesn't mean that nobody does; anecdotal evidence != truth, but then as a graduate student I expect you already know this.

 

[Marc]

Nobody games on Macs because, well, I'm not really sure why. It used to be that games weren't released on MAC they were just released on PC.

I game on the Mac. A lot of games get multiplatform releases and the presence of the Mac App store and Steam for Mac are only increasing the number of titles.

Just because you and your friends don't play games on Macs doesn't mean that nobody does; anecdotal evidence != truth, but then as a graduate student I expect you already know this.

admitted the macs have suffered a bit on the game front because they don't have the latest and greatest in video cards and while Apple's choices have been sometimes less than stellar, it's hard to fit the latest single slot behemouths in to an all-in-one design (let a the dual width).

 

[Arrqh]

admitted the macs have suffered a bit on the game front because they don't have the latest and greatest in video cards and while Apple's choices have been sometimes less than stellar, it's hard to fit the latest single slot behemouths in to an all-in-one design (let a the dual width).

Hardware is not really the main reason Macs have suffered in the gaming department. A lot of different things have happened over the years, but I think at it's basic level games were just never a priority for Jobs and Apple and without any sort of push to entice game devs to come over to the platform it just never went anywhere. And then you get a chicken and the egg problem... gamers don't buy Macs because there aren't any real games (other then typically substandard ports of PC titles) and devs don't want to develop on a platform that doesn't show good sales figures.

All that happens to solve the problem, IMO, is for Apple to either enter into an exclusive deal with some good developers or even buy one outright. Just like the console wars, it's not really about the hardware... it's about the games.

Just because you and your friends don't play games on Macs doesn't mean that nobody does; anecdotal evidence != truth, but then as a graduate student I expect you already know this.

Obviously some people do game on the Mac, but their numbers are significantly less then PC gamers. For instance, if we look at the Valve hardware survey for computers running Steam, only about 6% of Steam users are on a Mac. Don't confuse the number of ported PC titles for sales numbers.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Obviously some people do game on the Mac, but their numbers are significantly less then PC gamers. For instance, if we look at the Valve hardware survey for computers running Steam, only about 6% of Steam users are on a Mac. Don't confuse the number of ported PC titles for sales numbers.

Didn't say there were a lot, just that they exist. A lot of stuff gets ported; arguably more titles now than ten years ago. Necessarily there's not a lot of Mac gamers because there's not a lot of Mac owners.

 

[Arrqh]

Didn't say there were a lot, just that they exist. A lot of stuff gets ported; arguably more titles now than ten years ago. Necessarily there's not a lot of Mac gamers because there's not a lot of Mac owners.

Macs are roughly 11% of the home PC market. If there are less Mac gamers purely because there are less Mac owners I'd expect their Steam representation to also be in the 11% range, but it's only half that. There's more going on then just ownership numbers.