Are we seeing a pendulum swing or are we seeing the end of PC?

[YellowSubmarine]

Re: Are we seeing a pandulum swing or are we seeing the end of PC?

One thing that was made extremely clear to me in IT security classes in college was this: 90% of the big "hacking" incidents are inside jobs. The 10% that aren't, are enabled through the (often wilful) neglect of the company's security consultants, building in loopholes that someone else can exploit later.

Don't attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

The touchpad does not have the ability to open several documents at once. It cannot multitask. On a laptop, I can run Dreamweaver, Word (or Open Office), Photoshop, and or The Gimp all at once. This is not possible on a touchpad.

Tablet computers can do multitasking just fine, it's Apple who want their users to be stupid and disable it on purpose in their operating system. Hardware-wise these are pretty good systems, and they can well replace both the laptop and the desktop PC. But I agree that for most you'd want to replace the joke of an operating system that comes with them. IIRC Android has multitasking, it's the Java that's off-putting.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Real banks do this, too. Although they are usually capable of undoing it once they're aware of the problem.

Yep, I had Wells Fargo do that to me at the dawn of the computer banking era. They were using the Social Security Number as the online identifier and apparently the business numbers issued in the US are the same format so I logged into my account to find I had access to a corporate account with a business ID matching my SSN.

I'm an honest person so I contacted Wells about it, but there was nothing stopping me from transferring all the money from this corporate account into my checking account.

The only advantage of the cloud is really the ability to access all of your files from OTHER computers that aren't yours... and yet a 2gig flashdrive costs about ten dollars and can hold anything you could conceivably need on the road. And if you're not the kind of person who takes the simple step of backing up your files on a flash drive, you're probably not going to enjoy the cloud that much either.

Actually the cloud is useful for accessing your data from other devices which aren't desktop/laptop computers which ARE yours. Such as smartphones and tablets that don't necessarily have a USB interface. In fact that's the entire point of Apple's iCloud offering.

Sure it is. IF the tablet is running (almost) the same O.S. as a regular computer, you can simply use the keyboard as an optional device and only whip it out when you need to type something.

Apple is supposedly going to merge iOS and OS X in the near future.

The touchpad does not have the ability to open several documents at once. It cannot multitask.

Um, yes it can. My iPhone 4 runs many apps simultaneously and I'm able to switch between them without much effort. In fact it remembers what I had running the last time it was switched on an automatically starts all my apps up when I power it on.

 

[Marc]

Re: Are we seeing a pandulum swing or are we seeing the end of PC?

One thing that was made extremely clear to me in IT security classes in college was this: 90% of the big "hacking" incidents are inside jobs. The 10% that aren't, are enabled through the (often wilful) neglect of the company's security consultants, building in loopholes that someone else can exploit later.

Don't attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

The touchpad does not have the ability to open several documents at once. It cannot multitask. On a laptop, I can run Dreamweaver, Word (or Open Office), Photoshop, and or The Gimp all at once. This is not possible on a touchpad.

Tablet computers can do multitasking just fine, it's Apple who want their users to be stupid and disable it on purpose in their operating system. Hardware-wise these are pretty good systems, and they can well replace both the laptop and the desktop PC. But I agree that for most you'd want to replace the joke of an operating system that comes with them. IIRC Android has multitasking, it's the Java that's off-putting.

How abuot doing some reading on Apple's methodology before opening your mouth?

the lack of Multi-tasking on iOS 3 was due to a) maintaining system stabiility and b) the limitations of the hardware in terms of memory (okay Apple should have given the things more than 512MB RAM to play with) and getting the best possible performance of the SoC (it's not going to achieve anything if you can mult-task but the performance is dog slow).

Starting with the iPhone 3Gs they had faster SoC's which is what began to make it truly feasible where as the Android based phones were able to initially launch with the dual core design (the iPhone 3 carried over the same processor as the original iPhone).

And if you think that it's not real operating system becasue it can't multi-task, you might want to break the news to Microsoft. In the 14 years that MS-DOS reigned it wasn't able to natively multi-task even when the hardware supported it after the 80386 came out circa 1983.

 

[JarodRussell]

Oh, how I love these variations on "my dick is bigger than yours" discussions.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Did anyone ever really consider MS-DOS a "real" operating system? It was a glorified program loader and we all know it.

 

[ITL]

Did anyone ever really consider MS-DOS a "real" operating system? It was a glorified program loader and we all know it.

The first PC's I trained on were pre-Windows 286's. At home I had an Amiga, so I was used to a GUI. Oh, how I hated those 286's...

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Re: Are we seeing a pandulum swing or are we seeing the end of PC?

Nooooooooooo, MS-DOS is a pretty much a real mode operating system, it's as real as you can get!

How abuot doing some reading on Apple's methodology before opening your mouth?

I'm not usually interested in the public excuses as they do not necessarily represent the true reasons behind the decision, but in this case what you stated only confirms what I said – it's an artificial limitation that exists because Apple devices are designed to not trust and answer to their users... pardon, consumers.

 

[FPAlpha]

The PC is not going anywhere. These toy tablets are just a current trend, and they're useless for any kind of real work. They're a compromise for when you're away from a real computer, and that's all they'll ever be. Sure some people will be able to use them exclusively, but these are not the people that work with computers.

And now to get back to work on my PC doing some real work.

I'd not dismiss tablets so easily.. a lot of people said the same about laptop computers when they first spread onto the market and today many people will choose a laptop over a desktop computer any day (including me).

Tablets are just too new and haven't matured yet.. give them 5-10 years and i can guarantee they will have their share of the market. They'll be powerful enough for most needs and their physical limitations, i.e. space to put in devices that will be needed for power usage cna be offset via cloud computing, i.e. using server side full programs and storage (as much as i don't like cloud computing it could lift up tablet PCs to become a viable alternative).

Right now tablets aren't even in the ballpark.

You said it there.. "right now". I never claimed otherwise.. the iPad is what? 3 years old? Tablets have been around before that but only the iPad really started the market and other manufacturers have been playing ctach up since then.

As i said.. give them a few years to both improve OSs and the tech and i'm pretty sure that for many people it may become a good alternative because many people (like my dad and other non-powerusers) are only surfing the web and managing their pictures/writing occasionally a letter and tablets should do that just fine and they would have an advantage over netbooks in ease of accessability and possibly weight/screen size.

The market is booming and there's much fluctuation and new gadgets.. give them a few years to settle down and see then. If it develops like i believe it will i'll buy one maybe in 2-3 years.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: Are we seeing a pandulum swing or are we seeing the end of PC?

Nooooooooooo, MS-DOS is a pretty much a real mode operating system, it's as real as you can get!

How abuot doing some reading on Apple's methodology before opening your mouth?

I'm not usually interested in the public excuses as they do not necessarily represent the true reasons behind the decision, but in this case what you stated only confirms what I said – it's an artificial limitation that exists because Apple devices are designed to not trust and answer to their users... pardon, consumers.

Shall we tout the advantages of real mode? Things like no memory protection, no OS-level interrupt control, program bugs bringing down the whole system, everything effectively runs with a ring 0 privilege level, and so forth? Man, those were the days.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Yes. No operating system can dare to tell me where I can write! The whole address space is mine, mine, mine and only mine!

 

[Santaman]

DOS RULES! my IBM XT and my Philips P 3105 exchanging files via Interlink/Interserver using a parallel nul modem cable.

Oh and that happened this year... both machines are nearing the 30 year mark and they both work fine..

The PC will not go anywhere, it is simply the right combination of hard and software that is wanted and needed all around..

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I have to say I was never a big fan of XTs. Even in their time they were hideously underpowered. It wasn't until ATs that DOS PCs got to be particularly useful.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

tablets are actually flopping left and right. Apple's the only one who can get away with selling them at their current price value, and really it's cause it's Apple - they are basically a fashion label like buying an expensive Loius Vutton bag (note that i'm not suggesting LV bags are bad bags or anything).

Android tablets have sold VERY LITTLE. HP Touchpad was a huge flop before they started liquidating (I got a 99 dollar one and it's great at that price). That sent off a frenzy to get them, which definitely implies that tablets are priced way too high.

Tablets are glorified toys and won't replace PCs. The only tablet that sells... iPad, and I'll bet money a great majority of those users still use a 'normal' computer on a regular basis as well. .

 

[Santaman]

I have to say I was never a big fan of XTs. Even in their time they were hideously underpowered. It wasn't until ATs that DOS PCs got to be particularly useful.

You just needed to be a little inventive to make the most out of them, I've used them a lot from 1986 until 1994, after that I bought a 486 DX2 66Mhz machine (POWERRRRR!!!) oh and yes, I still have that machine too.

Best trick on an XT to do is to buy a NEC V20/30 chip, they were 15% faster at the same clockspeed and also confused most programs that needed a 286 those proggies thought it was one because of some very 286-ish features in that chip

Also a Seagate ST225 R RLL drive and controller card helped speeding up things, add a VGA card and you did have quite a useful machine. (which I still own..)

XT's were okay until the late 80's after that they became obsolete very quickly..

As for the tab thingies.. just a rehash of the PDA hype, they're bigger, better and so on but essentially they have the same limitations.

 

[Marc]

tablets are actually flopping left and right. Apple's the only one who can get away with selling them at their current price value, and really it's cause it's Apple - they are basically a fashion label like buying an expensive Loius Vutton bag (note that i'm not suggesting LV bags are bad bags or anything).

Android tablets have sold VERY LITTLE. HP Touchpad was a huge flop before they started liquidating (I got a 99 dollar one and it's great at that price). That sent off a frenzy to get them, which definitely implies that tablets are priced way too high.

Android tablets have only been on sale for something like 6 months and are making considerable headway with some that match or even exceed the iPad2.

Yes admittely they were held back about by the software but now Android 3 is out things are starting to go great guns - why else would Apple be scared shitless of the Samsung Galaxy?

The HP Touchpad wasn't given the chance to fail.

HP killed off a large chunk of it's business in one fell swoop - the mobile phones (the Palm Pre etc), the Touchpad were shitcanned and the PC side is going up to for sale.

Hardware wise the Touch was just as good as the iPad but was let down a bit by the O/S but which had all the right elements but needed some work.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4658/its-not-qualcomms-fault-dispelling-touchpad-myths

There's now going to be an attempt to port Android to the Touchpad which some believe will allow it to truly shine.

But if you want a stinker of a table you have look at the Rim Playbook but again it's not the hardware that's let it down, it's the software and moronic decisions by Resarch in Motion such as the only way it can check e-mail is to pair it was a Blackberry phone.

Tablets are glorified toys and won't replace PCs. The only tablet that sells... iPad, and I'll bet money a great majority of those users still use a 'normal' computer on a regular basis as well. .

Okay my iPad hasn't repleaced my desktop but it still gets a fair bit of use from reading while waiting at the chiropratctors to watching videos while lying in bed to surfing the net while in front of the tv. I have access to my calendar and e-mail so it comes in handy.

I'm just wonder why some people are so quick to piss on the tablets though?

Envy perhaps?

 

[Santaman]

I think it might be the same as with certain types of mobile phone users.. where you have an obnoxious (insult) playing loud music, games etc etc..

As for me, I've got desktops, laptops, PDA's and a tablet, they all have their uses, however, nothing has the power or flexibility of a desktop machine.

 

[Sheep]

HP's management has been completely braindead for the better part of a decade so their leaving the consumer PC biz shouldn't be taken as a sign of anything beyond their own incompetence.

Tablets are great for quick bites, but there will always be room for laptop and desktop PCs.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

It's generally worth remembering that most markets are divided up into segments with different types of customers with different types of buying habits. Tablets right now are very popular with the "first adopter" types who will rush to the stores to buy them just because they're new and flashy and do things their old devices don't really do. Beyond that, the core of the market--the MAJORITY of users--run the traditional cost-benefit analysis to see whether or not they actually need something new for what they're doing, for the price it's costing them. Then there's a smaller segment of luddites (old people, basically) who are always the last to adpot a new technology and never completely learn how to use it correctly.

Tablets/iPads right now are First Adopter toys. They're new and flashy, but they don't do anything that an average person will think is worth half a month's pay. As I said, when you get to the point where tablets become standalone devices with identical capabilities but more versatility than laptops, THEN it makes sense for the mainstream market to get into them. Otherwise, it's just a cutting edge toy... but 75% of consumers aren't ON the cutting edge and have no desire to be. That's part of the reason Apple is dominating the market the way they are: they came up with the idea first, and they have a lot of street cred with the first adopters (where as HP, for example, does not).

 

[mswood]

In 2009 80% of US homes had some form of computer (desktop or laptop), 52% specifically had a laptop.

In 2000 it was just 52%, so computers have taken a long time to gain their current widespread adoption.

I don't think they bulk of that is from people who actually do complex things with their computers.

At the beginning of this year 4% of homes had an iPad (which is probably now doubled at the very least).

It's far more then just early adopters, almost a quarter of my office owns an iPad (and I don't think anyone would call these people early adopters).

The question (though not yet but for the near future) is what does the average person use their home PC for?

Is it complex and intensive, or is it fairly basic? I think for the most part the majority of consumers do fairly basic stuff with their home PC.

For that sort of stuff Tablets will shortly be very well suited to do almost anything that the average user would need.

 

[mswood]

Tablets/iPads right now are First Adopter toys. They're new and flashy, but they don't do anything that an average person will think is worth half a month's pay

You only earn a grand a month? Yikes.

Well the majority of people in the US who work (let alone Households) earn significantly more then that.