Are there any good reasons to not want to be in the Federation?
- Thread starter suarezguy
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That whole episode is just really clunky with how it provides its exposition. They need to establish these details about Bajoran names and the significance of the earrings, unfortunately, they can't pull it off in a naturalistic way.
The whole thing with the names really irritates me. No one blinks with aliens who only have one name, but a race with two names who places the family name first is some weird concept they have to abandon to fit in with the rest of the galaxy. Yeah, no, that makes no sense at all. Although, TNG also had trouble with the concept of someone having one name, as Data's personnel file lists his full name as "NFN NMN Data." Those letters are supposed to mean "No First Name, No Middle Name." Though to be fair, Star Trek generally isn't too imaginative when it comes to its aliens anyway.
No, there aren't any good reasons to not want to be in the Federation.
In the words of Eddington: Nobody leaves paradise. Everyone should want to be in the Federation.
In the words of Eddington: Nobody leaves paradise. Everyone should want to be in the Federation.
Late seasons of Voyager are notable for getting it wrong with Crewman Tal Celes, who was referred to as Crewman Celes despite the presence of other Bajorans on Voyager's crew who followed the proper Bajoran naming format. Some have suggested that she's like other Bajorans mentioned on TNG who followed a "traditional" naming structure in order to blend in with the rest of the galaxy, though it's more likely the writers simply forgot that detail of Bajoran names at that point.
Then there's the oddity in Picard S3 of a Bajoran who has a completely human name, Matthew Arliss Mura, who is addressed as Lt. Mura, suggesting he doesn't even follow Bajoran naming conventions. But of course, this is Picard S3 and is thus an example the the "brilliance" of the Lord Terry Matalas.
this: human expansion (when most of Star Trek was written I suppose it was assumed that human population numbers would keep climbing. That doesn't look to be so certain now) by numbers, as well as the cultural permeation showing up in like.. almost every single Starfleet ship name mean the UFP is an Earth club and anyone else is welcome to join if they play by the rules. Cultures that can somehow survive in that might, but some cultures like Klingons are just incompatible with the Federation.
I suppose I'm not surprised. It's kind of our culture... if you ever see an advertisement featuring a family with more than two kids, it's probably for a minivan.
Given that every fertile human female has to produce about 2.4 offspring to even perpetuate our species, an "ideal" family size of two kids will produce a slow decline. And as birth control becomes more available, more people will adopt it.
Probably not stated canonically, but my headcanon on that one is that Mura is at least half-human and likely raised on Earth or another human world.
Maybe he was a Bajoran war orphan who lost his parents very young and was adopted by humans.
I understand it has to be slightly over 2, but 2.4 seems a bit high to me. Or is this taking worldwide infant mortality numbers into account?
The math wouldn't work out on that. He was obviously younger than twenty-five, otherwise the Borg virus wouldn't work on him. Which means he was born sometime after the end of the Dominion War.
Although, it should be noted, if Mura were the same age as the actor who played him, than he would have been born during the last few years of the Cardassian Occupation of Bajor and therefore could very well have been a war orphan raised by humans who named him.
About one woman in eight has to deal with infertility. That's why the women who can conceive have to do a bit more than their share. If every woman could have children, it would be about 2.1, not 2.4
we also don't know if the decline in childbirth rates will continue or if something will happen to even them out. in industrial/post-industrial countries with inadequate healthcare like the united states, its becoming too expensive for a young family to even consider having multiple kids. by contrast my granny had more than 10. If we reach post-scarcity will that change? If we reach post-employment will it change? hard to say.
That's the two-income problem. Child care runs about 1/3 of a typical paycheck per child. So, if you're going to have two, one of your incomes will mostly go to child care. If you have three, it's more economical for one parent to stay at home, unless both are in high-paying lines of work.
No. There's literally nothing to lose and everything to gain from joining the Federation.
Self determination to...what? Slavery? Exploitation of the weak? Murder? Human sacrifice? Because those are the things that tend to be illegal in the Federation.
You know..."State's Rights!!!".....eh?
Counterpoint: Eddington was an idiot with a tomato fetish who just liked the idea of being a "rebel" and based his life on a book he likely had never read.
Self determination to...what? Slavery? Exploitation of the weak? Murder? Human sacrifice? Because those are the things that tend to be illegal in the Federation.
You know..."State's Rights!!!".....eh?
And we should take this completely baseless claim that perhaps, maybe, was said by some unspecified "fan" under consideration...why?
No, there aren't any good reasons to not want to be in the Federation.
In the words of Eddington: Nobody leaves paradise. Everyone should want to be in the Federation.
Counterpoint: Eddington was an idiot with a tomato fetish who just liked the idea of being a "rebel" and based his life on a book he likely had never read.
A couple reasons why a planet or race wouldn't want to join the Federation.
1. When you join the Federation, you become a target for whatever enemy is after them at the time. As mentioned before, this is why Bajor didn't join the Federation in "RAPTURE". (We learn a few episodes later that the 'locusts' in Sisko's vision were Jem'Hadar ships.)
2. They may not want to be beholden to supplying stuff to other worlds. In "THE CLOUD MINDERS", for example, Ardana was required as a Federation member to supply some of their zenite to another world to aid in a disaster.
1. When you join the Federation, you become a target for whatever enemy is after them at the time. As mentioned before, this is why Bajor didn't join the Federation in "RAPTURE". (We learn a few episodes later that the 'locusts' in Sisko's vision were Jem'Hadar ships.)
2. They may not want to be beholden to supplying stuff to other worlds. In "THE CLOUD MINDERS", for example, Ardana was required as a Federation member to supply some of their zenite to another world to aid in a disaster.
Counterpoint: Eddington was an idiot with a tomato fetish who just liked the idea of being a "rebel" and based his life on a book he likely had never read.
Gee, you think? I held him for the One True Prophet, compared to whom even those so-called Bajoran "prophets" are false (and don't even get me started on the false "false prophets").
To answer the original question a bit more seriously: I could imagine that a society which wants to keep full control over all decisions they make (and not having to conform to 'Federation guidelines') and full independence would perhaps not want to join the Federation. Such a society need not be xenophobic or supremacist.
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