I agree. Appreciating beautiful women is fine with some class and restraint.
Are the majority of male fans of TOS chauvinists?
- Thread starter RAMA
- Start date
- Status
Jesus. Here's a thread that shoulda stayed dead.
The complacency and dislike of change among TOS-only fans is striking.
I haven't seen too many defend the notion that Janice Lester's ranting meant that women couldn't command ships, though - that seems to be a mite too ridiculous a stance even for the most hidebound (except, of course, during the time that it could be used as another stick to beat "Star Trek: Enterprise" with).
Maybe because the vast majority of those changes have been fair-to-lousy. I'm sure Xanadu: The Bland Iteration and The Adventures of Lil' Kane, Boy Publisher wouldn't sit well with fans of the Welles original, those hidebound, woman-hating codgers.
Maybe TOS-only fans don't like modern Trek because they find the majority of it to be poor quality, just as you dislike DS9, a show that, recent poll attesting, goes over rather well among the fogies 'roun dese heah pahts.
Striking, as in
.
number6
Vice Admiral
Brutal Strudel said:
Maybe because the vast majority of those changes have been fair-to-lousy. I'm sure Xanadu: The Bland Iteration and The Adventures of Lil' Kane, Boy Publisher wouldn't sit well with fans of the Welles original, those hidebound, woman-hating codgers.
Maybe TOS-only fans don't like modern Trek because they find the majority of it to be poor quality, just as you dislike DS9, a show that, recent poll attesting, goes over rather well among the fogies 'roun dese heah pahts.
Striking, as in
Except that UWC doesn't post in the DS9 threads to berate people who like DS9 or bait them with threads that are nothing more than thinly veiled "critiques" of the show.
L
Lord Garth
Guest
To his credit, Brutal Studel does not bait or berate in VOY and ENT.
Pruning has really gotten laxer. The max used to be 180 days.
Pruning has really gotten laxer. The max used to be 180 days.
Nope, that's not it. You're mistaken.
That wouldn't even be true if I were referring narrowly to their opinions of other Trek shows, but of course the broader topic is their bias against changes in the larger world and society in general - "chauvinism," after all, is a pretty meaningless concept if one's going to apply it just to someone's knee-jerk conservative opinion of a tv show.
You look at the loudest, most retrograde TOS-Onlies and then you follow their remarks on every other kind of thing - other tv shows, movies, politics, American culture, world events - and you'll see that the last two generations have been unsatisfactory to them on many fronts. And that is ultimately no one's problem but theirs.
In that poll I did of TOS traditions (in the Trek XI forum), the sexist stuff like red underpants and go go boots didn't do that well. People really wanted the character-based stuff like Spock's nerve pinch and McCoy hating transporters.
Well now, I voted for the miniskirts and go go boots as well as the big hair. Hey, I happen to like 60s fashions--and yeah, I like looking at an attractive woman's legs--nothing at all wrong with that. Now, that doesn't give me the right to be obnoxious, rude, or act like a jerk.
TOS fans are like any other group of fans--you've got your nice people you'd love to hang with, your hello/goodbye types, and your utter jerks--but most TOS--and Trek fans in general--that I know fall in the first category.
TOS fans are like any other group of fans--you've got your nice people you'd love to hang with, your hello/goodbye types, and your utter jerks--but most TOS--and Trek fans in general--that I know fall in the first category.
UWC Defiance said:
Nope, that's not it. You're mistaken.
That wouldn't even be true if I were referring narrowly to their opinions of other Trek shows, but of course the broader topic is their bias against changes in the larger world and society in general - "chauvinism," after all, is a pretty meaningless concept if one's going to apply it just to someone's knee-jerk conservative opinion of a tv show.
You look at the loudest, most retrograde TOS-Onlies and then you follow their remarks on every other kind of thing - other tv shows, movies, politics, American culture, world events - and you'll see that the last two generations have been unsatisfactory to them on many fronts. And that is ultimately no one's problem but theirs.
Well, aside from sneaking a "no, you are objectively wrong about Modern Trek" argument in there (how can I be objectively wrong that ENT sucks anymore than you can be objectively wriong that DS9 sucks? That's chauvinistic), you make a point I can't refute, mainly because I tend to stay out of Misc. and I never requested access to TNZ (blood pressure, gotta watch it). I've never tracked the opinions into other areas. Forgive me, though, if I fail to take your word on it.
DS9 had "a very bad lesbian kiss"
After that kiss my wife realized she was a...L e s b i a n.
Tasha is written better in the "Survivors" prose novel.
After that kiss my wife realized she was a...L e s b i a n.
Tasha is written better in the "Survivors" prose novel.
Brutal Strudel said:
UWC Defiance said:
Nope, that's not it. You're mistaken.
That wouldn't even be true if I were referring narrowly to their opinions of other Trek shows, but of course the broader topic is their bias against changes in the larger world and society in general - "chauvinism," after all, is a pretty meaningless concept if one's going to apply it just to someone's knee-jerk conservative opinion of a tv show.
You look at the loudest, most retrograde TOS-Onlies and then you follow their remarks on every other kind of thing - other tv shows, movies, politics, American culture, world events - and you'll see that the last two generations have been unsatisfactory to them on many fronts. And that is ultimately no one's problem but theirs.
Well, aside from sneaking a "no, you are objectively wrong about Modern Trek" argument in there (how can I be objectively wrong that ENT sucks anymore than you can be objectively wriong that DS9 sucks? That's chauvinistic)
Yes, you're exactly right.
I often deliberately respond to flatfooted statements of opinion with similarly unshaded and strident statements of opinion. It's karmic, dude.
Oh, bullshit.
- Status
Similar threads
