Are all conservative governments the same?

[Gingerbread Demon]

In the US, recessions (including the Great Bush Recession) and The Great Depression, have occurred under Republicans. Democrats have led the recoveries. This is historical fact.

As to the party differences:

Conservatives have tried re-writing history books to cover up mistreatment of minorities, including Jews, blacks, Native Americans, etc.

Conservatives are pro corporations (Romney's "corporations are people, too, my friend", Citizens United case where unlimited donations by corporations were upheld as a free speech right), fewer taxes for the wealthy, less or no healthcare for those who can least afford it, creating laws which have banned the feeding of hungry people ("not in my backyard" policies), global warming is a "fallacy".

Conservatives create voter registration hurdles to block voting by liberals.

Liberals: Let all American citizens vote for their leaders.

Liberals: We should follow scientific facts such as global warming, evolution [simple solution & my belief is Big Bang Theory=God spoke it into existence from nothing... problem resolved].

Liberals: People's rights first, corporations are businesses NOT people.

Liberals: ALL Americans are created equal, whether black, white, gay, straight, rich, poor, etc... period.

I worked on Ronald Reagan's presidential campaign. It was my first time volunteering publicly. I was a conservative Republican for many years, until it became clear that I could not reconcile my political beliefs with my Christian values. Jesus helped the poor, fed the hungry, told his disciples to care for widows and orphans, to be loving and caring rather than judgmental and unforgiving.

Knowing I was gay, yet my own party was anti-gay, was also a deciding factor. However, it wasn't until I had dinner with Sen. Bob Dole and (then) Secretary of Transportation Elizabeth Dole that my revelation occurred. During dinner conversation Bob Dole stated that "we should convert orphanages to workhouses so they can earn their keep and help businesses reduce costs". [To this day I remember it word for word.] This sent chills up my spine! He said we could expand it to include gays and "other menaces to society" like drug dealers.

I went out and registered as an Independent and remain one to this day. I read up on candidates for office, call them out on lies and claims [when Elizabeth Dole ran for Senate in North Carolina, I called her out at her headquarters when she announced her candidacy], I voted accordingly. Sometimes, I vote for the wrong candidate (Pat McCrory, who promised to be a bipartisan leader as governor of NC), however, I do try to vote for the person rather than the party.

To date, I have met the following US presidents: Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, and Bill Clinton. All but one impressed me as caring of the citizens they represented [Bush].

Why is that not surprising?

The Dole's would get on well with the likes of Tony Abbott. He's our Prime Minister and says clever stuff like "coal is the future and good for Australia"

Also he's cut funding to groups like the CSIRO who used to be real innovative people and do science and research. Can't have science. That's sciency.

But they have increased funding for chaplains in schools. hmmm

They love giving corporations and big business handouts but the actual low to middle income earners are not who they want to support, and people on welfare end up demonized. It's a lovely place.

 

[MacLeod]

In the US, recessions (including the Great Bush Recession) and The Great Depression, have occurred under Republicans. Democrats have led the recoveries. This is historical fact.

As to the party differences:

Conservatives have tried re-writing history books to cover up mistreatment of minorities, including Jews, blacks, Native Americans, etc.

Conservatives are pro corporations (Romney's "corporations are people, too, my friend", Citizens United case where unlimited donations by corporations were upheld as a free speech right), fewer taxes for the wealthy, less or no healthcare for those who can least afford it, creating laws which have banned the feeding of hungry people ("not in my backyard" policies), global warming is a "fallacy".

Conservatives create voter registration hurdles to block voting by liberals.

Liberals: Let all American citizens vote for their leaders.

Liberals: We should follow scientific facts such as global warming, evolution [simple solution & my belief is Big Bang Theory=God spoke it into existence from nothing... problem resolved].

Liberals: People's rights first, corporations are businesses NOT people.

Liberals: ALL Americans are created equal, whether black, white, gay, straight, rich, poor, etc... period.

I worked on Ronald Reagan's presidential campaign. It was my first time volunteering publicly. I was a conservative Republican for many years, until it became clear that I could not reconcile my political beliefs with my Christian values. Jesus helped the poor, fed the hungry, told his disciples to care for widows and orphans, to be loving and caring rather than judgmental and unforgiving.

Knowing I was gay, yet my own party was anti-gay, was also a deciding factor. However, it wasn't until I had dinner with Sen. Bob Dole and (then) Secretary of Transportation Elizabeth Dole that my revelation occurred. During dinner conversation Bob Dole stated that "we should convert orphanages to workhouses so they can earn their keep and help businesses reduce costs". [To this day I remember it word for word.] This sent chills up my spine! He said we could expand it to include gays and "other menaces to society" like drug dealers.

I went out and registered as an Independent and remain one to this day. I read up on candidates for office, call them out on lies and claims [when Elizabeth Dole ran for Senate in North Carolina, I called her out at her headquarters when she announced her candidacy], I voted accordingly. Sometimes, I vote for the wrong candidate (Pat McCrory, who promised to be a bipartisan leader as governor of NC), however, I do try to vote for the person rather than the party.

To date, I have met the following US presidents: Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, and Bill Clinton. All but one impressed me as caring of the citizens they represented [Bush].

I think those points are more true of US conservatives, given that US conservatisim is more towards the right on the political spectram than conservatitisim in other countries.

In the Great Depression of the 1920's in the UK it was a Conservative governement, in the more recent 2008 depression it was a Labour Governement (Labour in the UK being the party that's on the left side of the spectrum). In the late 1970's in the UK we had what was known as the winter of discontenet under a Labour government which led to 18 years of a Conservative government.

But to highlight a point didn't a US republican politican recently say lets leave science to the scientist. So when 97% of the worlds scientist saying humans are having an impact on the global climate we should believe them right?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

At least people in this thread aren't saying that all conservative posters are the same. Because that would be bad.

 

[MacLeod]

Can people really be pigeon holed into right or left on the political spectrum that easily? Sure there are some ardent supporters of both sides of the political spectrum but many will fall inbetween the two sides, sure you might lean one way but agree with the other side on certain issues.

 

[Mick]

No, the Right Wingers here are just the same. The rich use money to control their politicians and the politicians use religion to control the people.

Don't forget the "fear card" they love to play that angle to pass laws now that in past years no one would have ever dreamed of. Patriot Act anyone?

The Patriot Act was a bi-partisan PoS legislation that both BOTH parties voted for, in overwhelming numbers. President Obama signed the bill extending the Patriot Act.

The "they" in your response is both the "left" and the "right".

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

No, the Right Wingers here are just the same. The rich use money to control their politicians and the politicians use religion to control the people.

Don't forget the "fear card" they love to play that angle to pass laws now that in past years no one would have ever dreamed of. Patriot Act anyone?

The Patriot Act was a bi-partisan PoS legislation that both BOTH parties voted for, in overwhelming numbers. President Obama signed the bill extending the Patriot Act.

The "they" in your response is both the "left" and the "right".

It is indeed.

But both sides are playing the fear card.

 

[MANT!]

That's an interesting phrase... Often used to describe pollies and lawyers

BTW your avatar what movie is that and where can you find it? I like

it's a movie within a movie..in the film "Matinee"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_kTbWDxITw

Oh thanks I was actually wanting a larger size as a wallpaper

Here's the biggest I have..

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

it's a movie within a movie..in the film "Matinee"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_kTbWDxITw

Oh thanks I was actually wanting a larger size as a wallpaper

Here's the biggest I have..

Thanks I grabbed it. I love that 50s style movie art. The Women are always the targets of the monsters.. The art is bright and also colourful

 

[sidious618]

Conservatives come in all flavors. I'm one...yet I do believe in science, don't think much of religion, and think the mass collection of information about us is an invasion of privacy.

When I was young, my parents taught me to spend less than I make. While I know now that that is difficult for a government, I do think that it is a goal to strive for.

I think that the wealthy and successful are not the enemy. Please don't tell me that I don't pay my fair share of taxes...I pay my share and probably several other people's share.

I think that lack of education and jobs is a problem in our inner cities, but the moment that someone sells drugs, shoots someone or loots a store it is their problem, their choice, and no one else's fault.

I think that people that are here illegally are breaking the law and should not be put ahead of those who followed the law.

I think that abortion is a stressful emotional experience for someone no matter where they stand politically and I would not wish that circumstance on anyone.

I think that Obamacare does not help people when they get a cheap premium with tax credits but still have an $4,000 deductible.

I think that there can be more than one right answer and that reasonable minds can disagree.

That is the kind of conservative that I am.

Interesting. That is pretty much the kind of liberal I am.

If you think the rich in America are paying their fair share and then some you're not really much of a liberal.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ I said "pretty much" (I don't think the wealthy and successful are the enemy, I do think tax laws need to be more fair). And I also said liberal, not Left Wing. When people say liberal and conservative, they really mean Left Wing and Right Wing. Left Wing and Right Wing are specific ideologies, and all ideologies are conservative by nature. Liberals don't conform to any ideology.

Conservatives come in all flavors. I'm one...yet I do believe in science, don't think much of religion, and think the mass collection of information about us is an invasion of privacy.

When I was young, my parents taught me to spend less than I make. While I know now that that is difficult for a government, I do think that it is a goal to strive for.

I think that the wealthy and successful are not the enemy. Please don't tell me that I don't pay my fair share of taxes...I pay my share and probably several other people's share.

I think that lack of education and jobs is a problem in our inner cities, but the moment that someone sells drugs, shoots someone or loots a store it is their problem, their choice, and no one else's fault.

I think that people that are here illegally are breaking the law and should not be put ahead of those who followed the law.

I think that abortion is a stressful emotional experience for someone no matter where they stand politically and I would not wish that circumstance on anyone.

I think that Obamacare does not help people when they get a cheap premium with tax credits but still have an $4,000 deductible.

I think that there can be more than one right answer and that reasonable minds can disagree.

That is the kind of conservative that I am.

Interesting. That is pretty much the kind of liberal I am.

That's it then...time to announce our candidacy for 2016. We should try to secure the Star Trek fan voting bloc early....

I'm all for that. I'd really love to see something that could break the back of the two-party system. That's why I always promote election reform-- we need to get rid of the Electoral College and institute a ranking system for voting.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Check this out.. The Rich can't pay tax because they might be kidnapped so our government is going to let them be exempt from tax...

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...thy-need-tax-reporting-exemptions?CMP=soc_567

See some conservative governments protect the rich... Some of these companies donate huge sums to the LNP in Australia.

This isn't democracy

 

[abeardall]

Conservatives come in all flavors. I'm one...yet I do believe in science, don't think much of religion, and think the mass collection of information about us is an invasion of privacy.

When I was young, my parents taught me to spend less than I make. While I know now that that is difficult for a government, I do think that it is a goal to strive for.

I think that the wealthy and successful are not the enemy. Please don't tell me that I don't pay my fair share of taxes...I pay my share and probably several other people's share.

I think that lack of education and jobs is a problem in our inner cities, but the moment that someone sells drugs, shoots someone or loots a store it is their problem, their choice, and no one else's fault.

I think that people that are here illegally are breaking the law and should not be put ahead of those who followed the law.

I think that abortion is a stressful emotional experience for someone no matter where they stand politically and I would not wish that circumstance on anyone.

I think that Obamacare does not help people when they get a cheap premium with tax credits but still have an $4,000 deductible.

I think that there can be more than one right answer and that reasonable minds can disagree.

That is the kind of conservative that I am.

Interesting. That is pretty much the kind of liberal I am.

If you think the rich in America are paying their fair share and then some you're not really much of a liberal.

I am just curious, how much is fair?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

^ Well, I can tell you right away that your first mistake is in assuming that one can give a singular and simple answer to that question. Hence the tax code. It's complex for a reason.

 

[ichab]

^^^....If you can't answer the question of what a fair share is then you can't really make any claims of the rich not paying it.

 

[ichab]

Conservatives come in all flavors. I'm one...yet I do believe in science, don't think much of religion, and think the mass collection of information about us is an invasion of privacy.

When I was young, my parents taught me to spend less than I make. While I know now that that is difficult for a government, I do think that it is a goal to strive for.

I think that the wealthy and successful are not the enemy. Please don't tell me that I don't pay my fair share of taxes...I pay my share and probably several other people's share.

I think that lack of education and jobs is a problem in our inner cities, but the moment that someone sells drugs, shoots someone or loots a store it is their problem, their choice, and no one else's fault.

I think that people that are here illegally are breaking the law and should not be put ahead of those who followed the law.

I think that abortion is a stressful emotional experience for someone no matter where they stand politically and I would not wish that circumstance on anyone.

I think that Obamacare does not help people when they get a cheap premium with tax credits but still have an $4,000 deductible.

I think that there can be more than one right answer and that reasonable minds can disagree.

That is the kind of conservative that I am.

Interesting. That is pretty much the kind of liberal I am.

It seems to me that you are both fiscally conservative and socially liberal. The mistake people make is thinking you have to be on one side for every single issue.

 

[HIjol]

Conservatives come in all flavors. I'm one...yet I do believe in science, don't think much of religion, and think the mass collection of information about us is an invasion of privacy.

When I was young, my parents taught me to spend less than I make. While I know now that that is difficult for a government, I do think that it is a goal to strive for.

I think that the wealthy and successful are not the enemy. Please don't tell me that I don't pay my fair share of taxes...I pay my share and probably several other people's share.

I think that lack of education and jobs is a problem in our inner cities, but the moment that someone sells drugs, shoots someone or loots a store it is their problem, their choice, and no one else's fault.

I think that people that are here illegally are breaking the law and should not be put ahead of those who followed the law.

I think that abortion is a stressful emotional experience for someone no matter where they stand politically and I would not wish that circumstance on anyone.

I think that Obamacare does not help people when they get a cheap premium with tax credits but still have an $4,000 deductible.

I think that there can be more than one right answer and that reasonable minds can disagree.

That is the kind of conservative that I am.

Interesting. That is pretty much the kind of liberal I am.

That's it then...time to announce our candidacy for 2016. We should try to secure the Star Trek fan voting bloc early....

Amazing, but the above-listed beliefs and values are very much the "LiberPubliCrat" I am!!!

I humbly offer my name for consideration for the position of Head Speechwriter and Poet Laureate (ok, so that one is chosen and awarded)

 

[Locutus of Bored]

^^^....If you can't answer the question of what a fair share is then you can't really make any claims of the rich not paying it.

No, it's an acknowledgement that a progressive tax rate based on income level, assets, family status, business and other deductions can't be expressed by a simple percentage, and that a flat tax of that nature is inherently "unfair" to lower income people. Taking a poor person's 20% of income and a rich person's 20% do not affect them the same way.

But in addition to having very favorable tax rates today as opposed to the past (during times of great wealth and progress in the country) a lot of wealthy people use offshore tax shelters, return on investments instead of a straight salary, questionable deductions, and other tricks of the trade to pay tax rates on par with and occasionally even lower than some middle and low income people.

 

[sidious618]

I am just curious, how much is fair?

For people making millions of dollars the tax rate should be, at least, 50%. Higher would be preferable, of course, but I think right now 50% is an attainable goal. Capital gains need to be taxed and offshore accounts need to be monitored more heavily. Corporations need to be taxed more, since many pay all of 0% in taxes, and tax loopholes need to be shut.

Said tax money should go into assistance for folks who are very poor and who suffer from mental illness, two groups that, sadly, cross over far too often. I would also want the tax money to go to a very large public works program.

All of this can, and has been, done in America.

Of course, this is still proposing a solution within the capitalist system. A complete overhaul of our economic system is what is truly needed, but people fear change far too much for that.

 

[abeardall]

I am just curious, how much is fair?

For people making millions of dollars the tax rate should be, at least, 50%. Higher would be preferable, of course, but I think right now 50% is an attainable goal. Capital gains need to be taxed and offshore accounts need to be monitored more heavily. Corporations need to be taxed more, since many pay all of 0% in taxes, and tax loopholes need to be shut.

Said tax money should go into assistance for folks who are very poor and who suffer from mental illness, two groups that, sadly, cross over far too often. I would also want the tax money to go to a very large public works program.

All of this can, and has been, done in America.

Of course, this is still proposing a solution within the capitalist system. A complete overhaul of our economic system is what is truly needed, but people fear change far too much for that.

So, which tax loopholes would you close? The mortgage, childcare, hire a veteran, educational, invest in infrastructure ones? Or others?

My company has gotten several tax breaks, it has freed up cashflow to hire additional employees. In your opinion, which is better...for my company to pay more taxes or to pay less but provide three more jobs?

 

[abeardall]

Interesting. That is pretty much the kind of liberal I am.

That's it then...time to announce our candidacy for 2016. We should try to secure the Star Trek fan voting bloc early....

Amazing, but the above-listed beliefs and values are very much the "LiberPubliCrat" I am!!!

I humbly offer my name for consideration for the position of Head Speechwriter and Poet Laureate (ok, so that one is chosen and awarded)

Speechwriter for the campaign? Press secretary after our inevitable victory?