Are all conservative governments the same?

[RJDiogenes]

Conservatives come in all flavors. I'm one...yet I do believe in science, don't think much of religion, and think the mass collection of information about us is an invasion of privacy.

When I was young, my parents taught me to spend less than I make. While I know now that that is difficult for a government, I do think that it is a goal to strive for.

I think that the wealthy and successful are not the enemy. Please don't tell me that I don't pay my fair share of taxes...I pay my share and probably several other people's share.

I think that lack of education and jobs is a problem in our inner cities, but the moment that someone sells drugs, shoots someone or loots a store it is their problem, their choice, and no one else's fault.

I think that people that are here illegally are breaking the law and should not be put ahead of those who followed the law.

I think that abortion is a stressful emotional experience for someone no matter where they stand politically and I would not wish that circumstance on anyone.

I think that Obamacare does not help people when they get a cheap premium with tax credits but still have an $4,000 deductible.

I think that there can be more than one right answer and that reasonable minds can disagree.

That is the kind of conservative that I am.

Interesting. That is pretty much the kind of liberal I am.

It seems to me that you are both fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

There's a bit of a correlation there, yes, but even at that there's disagreement. I look at everything on a case-by-case basis, since I'm not beholden to any ideology.

The mistake people make is thinking you have to be on one side for every single issue.

This is very true. The political shoving match promotes ideological extremism, and ideological extremism promotes the yer-either-with-us-or-agin-us bullying.

Interesting. That is pretty much the kind of liberal I am.

That's it then...time to announce our candidacy for 2016. We should try to secure the Star Trek fan voting bloc early....

Amazing, but the above-listed beliefs and values are very much the "LiberPubliCrat" I am!!!

I humbly offer my name for consideration for the position of Head Speechwriter and Poet Laureate (ok, so that one is chosen and awarded)

You're in.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Demand is the real job creator. Without demand, there is nothing for corporations to do, and no reason for them to hire anyone.

A progressive tax system increases aggregate demand, compared to flat tax while holding the amount of tax revenue constant, by reducing the tax burden on the middle class and poor.

So, a progressive system is better for the economy than a flat tax system. That's one major reason why a flat tax for income tax isn't going anywhere in the US.

 

[MacLeod]

Yet another strawman argument. I didn't say they were doing anything illegal. I said the tax structure needs to be changed so that they pay more. You're arguing against something I didn't say which is dishonest and shows you either don't have a grasp on the subject or aren't interested in actually discussing it.

A society only works when there's solidarity and social peace. The rich have more than the poor so it makes sense that they can also contribute more to the society and country that created the circumstances that made them become rich. That's why the rich should pay higher taxes.
Seems like common sense to a EuroCommie like myself.

I agree.

But the rich have accountants and sneaky people to find loopholes to avoid paying tax.. How do you fix that?

Loopholes can be closed

 

[Relayer1]

Short answer no.

As what is called conservative can vary from country to country. Take the US for example the GOP would be called conservative in their country, yet many parties that hold that definition in other countries, are still closer to the US Democratic party.

In the UK the Conservative party would probably be seen as the more pro Arts party.

In the UK I think most parties believe in Science.

You can say anything that questions any parties beliefs is labelled as bad or evil, it's all a matter of perspective.

But to take spending cuts or austerity measures, the question is do they work.

If you look at Greece you would have to say no.
In the UK undergoing austerity measures it's economy was one of the fastest growing economies in the G7, so a case could be made that it can help.

But some of that is down to market confidence.

In the UK the best position for any party to hold is the centre ground, with the two major UK parties Conservative being seen as centre-right and Labour as centre-left. If they start to stray too far to the right or left they can very quickly find themselves out of power.

I'd agree with almost all of this, with one proviso - allowing for the U.K.'s lurch to the right in the last two or three decades, I'd say Labour (with their adoption of Thatcherite philosophies) are the centre right. The Conservatives have always been further out ideologically - I'd call them the 'old' right.

 

[jaz'a]

Check this out.. The Rich can't pay tax because they might be kidnapped so our government is going to let them be exempt from tax...

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...thy-need-tax-reporting-exemptions?CMP=soc_567

See some conservative governments protect the rich... Some of these companies donate huge sums to the LNP in Australia.

This isn't democracy

Because no body knows that Gina Rinehart is the richest woman in Australia already. We really do need to stop that information getting out.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

A society only works when there's solidarity and social peace. The rich have more than the poor so it makes sense that they can also contribute more to the society and country that created the circumstances that made them become rich. That's why the rich should pay higher taxes.
Seems like common sense to a EuroCommie like myself.

I agree.

But the rich have accountants and sneaky people to find loopholes to avoid paying tax.. How do you fix that?

Loopholes can be closed

That is a a lot easier said then actually done

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Check this out.. The Rich can't pay tax because they might be kidnapped so our government is going to let them be exempt from tax...

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...thy-need-tax-reporting-exemptions?CMP=soc_567

See some conservative governments protect the rich... Some of these companies donate huge sums to the LNP in Australia.

This isn't democracy

Because no body knows that Gina Rinehart is the richest woman in Australia already. We really do need to stop that information getting out.

Of course not.... And the 999 others in the top 1000. I just don't understand why the govt. is doing this... It smells fishy.

 

[MacLeod]

I agree.

But the rich have accountants and sneaky people to find loopholes to avoid paying tax.. How do you fix that?

Loopholes can be closed

That is a a lot easier said then actually done

Well it would be easier if those that make the rules had an incentive to do their job, but the impression is that some have an incetive not to their job.

 

[HIjol]

Interesting. That is pretty much the kind of liberal I am.

It seems to me that you are both fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

There's a bit of a correlation there, yes, but even at that there's disagreement. I look at everything on a case-by-case basis, since I'm not beholden to any ideology.

This is very true. The political shoving match promotes ideological extremism, and ideological extremism promotes the yer-either-with-us-or-agin-us bullying.

That's it then...time to announce our candidacy for 2016. We should try to secure the Star Trek fan voting bloc early....

Amazing, but the above-listed beliefs and values are very much the "LiberPubliCrat" I am!!!

I humbly offer my name for consideration for the position of Head Speechwriter and Poet Laureate (ok, so that one is chosen and awarded)

You're in.

RJ an abeardall!

Please, I need titles for your candidacy, and planks for our Platform so that I can start on the speeches. I see an Immediate need for a Stump, and then, of course, some Policy Speeches; "Runabout in Every Garage", "Holodeck Tax Reduction", "Illegal Alien Bill Funding", blah blah blah. Oh, and Campaign Style! What look are we going for? My Talosian will bring by some samples and ideas.

Only 5 months 'till The Primaries!

"RJ and abeardall The Only Timeline!

 

[Smellincoffee]

If there were a lot less wars and a lot more revolutions this world would be a happier place.


(Oh, and not having a big divide between rich and poor is one of the things that make a happy population... if noone else, trust a Dane on this!)

Yeah, the aftermath of the French, Russian, and Chinese revolutions were famously a happy time. Nothing good comes of rioting mobs. How many glorious revolutions has Denmark had? I doubt anyone whose city has burned, whose loved ones have been imperiled, would be so sanguine about the prospect of bloodshed.

The object of civilization is to squelch, as much as possible, the chimpanzee brutality that lurks in every single one of us. Revolution only enthrones the savage.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^ That depends on who's revolting and why. And how.

RJ an abeardall!

Please, I need titles for your candidacy, and planks for our Platform so that I can start on the speeches. I see an Immediate need for a Stump, and then, of course, some Policy Speeches; "Runabout in Every Garage", "Holodeck Tax Reduction", "Illegal Alien Bill Funding", blah blah blah. Oh, and Campaign Style! What look are we going for? My Talosian will bring by some samples and ideas.

Only 5 months 'till The Primaries!

"RJ and abeardall The Only Timeline!

"Had enough of the Right Wingnuts? Had enough of the Left Wingnuts? Vote the Ambidextrous Party!"

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Maybe my little pony could be president

 

[Stoo]

^^ That depends on who's revolting and why. And how.

Well I'd say conservative governments are pretty rev-

sorry, sorry. Too easy.

 

[RJDiogenes]

^^

 

[Squiggy]

No, the Right Wingers here are just the same. The rich use money to control their politicians and the politicians use religion to control the people.

Don't forget the "fear card" they love to play that angle to pass laws now that in past years no one would have ever dreamed of. Patriot Act anyone?

The Patriot Act was a bi-partisan PoS legislation that both BOTH parties voted for, in overwhelming numbers. President Obama signed the bill extending the Patriot Act.

The "they" in your response is both the "left" and the "right".

Back when Bush had a 90% approval rating.

Crazy times.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Yeah, the aftermath of the French, Russian, and Chinese revolutions were famously a happy time.

The French Revolution and the Napoelonic Empire enshrined concepts such as nationalism and meritocracy and the rule of law. Napoleon emancipated the Jews and recreated the Polish State. Compared to the Ancien Regime and their successors, the French Revolution was certainly a net positive and very popular compared to the dysfunctional and anemic regimes that stood before and followed them.