Not a regular, but, as I recall, there was originally supposed to be more of romance between Lindstrom and that local girl he rescues. You can still see hints of it around the fringes of the plot, but the love story was largely cut.
Archons question
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Not a regular, but, as I recall, there was originally supposed to be more of romance between Lindstrom and that local girl he rescues. You can still see hints of it around the fringes of the plot, but the love story was largely cut.
Praetor Baldric
Lieutenant Commander
Right, I knew that but were they pre-Prime Directive or recently lost? Did they have any encounters with Landru, or did he predate them?
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The Archon visited the planet about 100 years before the Enterprise. The crew were either killed or absorbed and Landru destroyed the ship. The computer the real Landru had built was operating for several millennia.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Return_of_the_Archons
The Archon dated from the same period as the Horizon from "A Piece of the Action," and we know the Prime Directive wasn't around yet at the time.
Praetor Baldric
Lieutenant Commander
Somehow I always felt like I was missing something. They must have glossed over that whole back story really quickly in the ep. Gonna watch it again tonight! For me, it was the Red Hour Festival that got me and the dude who makes up my avatar's creepy way of smiling and talking.
Pieces of information come out in dialogue, I think, I've not seen it in at least 10 years. It's possible during the syndication days, some of that backstory was cut to fit in commercials. I was once watching "The Squire of Gothos in syndication, and the station cut out over 8 minutes of one single act
Praetor Baldric
Lieutenant Commander
Thanks for this! Browsing through I see that direct references to the Archon and Archons are few. It seems that the backstory was really just that and it was pushed well into the back.
Which makes zero sense. Why would Sulu blame Lindstrom specifically for sending him down in his uniform? Did Lindstrom tell everyone that they didn't need disguises, because the locals wore Starfleet uniforms? If so, how stupid was everyone else?
The difference of period attire between what Sulu was wearing and what the natives were wearing is pretty obvious, and obviously what the scene is about.
I don't think the difference in Sulu's garb and the natives is that obvious. I never noticed it after many viewings. I just thought Sulu was off his head. LOL.
I know it doesn't make much sense but the Blish adaption specifically mentions the uniform.
And people here said they saw the uniform in the episode. I personally didn't. It was just a bundle of clothes to me.
Blish said he didn't actually see the episode before he wrote the adaption so he must have been going off script drafts.
And the Archons wouldn't have been wearing TOS uniforms, they would have been wearing ENT's overalls if anything.
Perhaps the lawgivers were after anyone wearing or acting differently from the general populace.
And Kirk and co never wore disguises. They popped down to almost every planet in their uniforms regardless of the technological level of the planet.
I guess it depends on how familiar you are with historical dramas. Viewers in the '60s would've been quite accustomed to watching Westerns and shows set in the 19th century, and probably would've had a fair acquaintanceship with 18th-century period dramas as well, so it might've been easier for them to notice the difference in clothing style.
I think I was always aware that the outfits Sulu and O'Neil wore in the teaser were different from the outfits seen in the rest of the episode, even though I didn't realize they were specifically 18th- and 19th-century fashions until less than a decade ago. I just knew that the former outfits were more colorful and frillier. And I understood Sulu's line clearly enough -- "These [tosses bundle at Lindstrom] are the clothes they wear -- not these [gestures at his own current attire]." That was enough to tip me off that they were in the wrong clothes, even if I wasn't clear on the specific differences.
In 1967 there was only Star Trek. It's not like the writers had telepathy and could know what ENT was going to depict.
If a writer was wanting to write a reference to a previous Starfleet mission from 100 years earlier, he may well have assumed the uniforms would be the same or similar.
Praetor Baldric
Lieutenant Commander
I dunno about that. Look how much military uniforms have changed from 1867 to 1967, for example.
One thing we shouldn't forget is that Landru's subjects weren't always like they appear. And I don't mean the Red Hour thing; I mean they were more technologically advanced once, capable of producing the Landru computer, the light panel (flatscreen TV?) hidden away - and thus no doubt also more modern clothing than the two variants we witness here.
Is the progression from 18th to 19th century attire a case of the culture doing "reruns" of its own history under Landru's guidance, then? That would have to be the n'th cycle of such, probably, since Landru took over 6,000 years ago and the first couple of thousand years of rerunning a human-style history would be rather devoid of fashion twists and turns - the apparent sole reason for playing the "culture seemingly evolves" game in the first place.
Or is it rather a case of Landru having captured the Archons and recently remodeled the local culture in Earth's image? Fashions could come and go basically every Red Hour, then, with Landru fast-forwarding "Earth" in anticipation of starting with "Gomron" and "Kesidu", his other recent starship captures, next... And Lindstrom would be making a rather understandable mistake when recommending costumes that are soooo last week.
Timo Saloniemi
Is the progression from 18th to 19th century attire a case of the culture doing "reruns" of its own history under Landru's guidance, then? That would have to be the n'th cycle of such, probably, since Landru took over 6,000 years ago and the first couple of thousand years of rerunning a human-style history would be rather devoid of fashion twists and turns - the apparent sole reason for playing the "culture seemingly evolves" game in the first place.
Or is it rather a case of Landru having captured the Archons and recently remodeled the local culture in Earth's image? Fashions could come and go basically every Red Hour, then, with Landru fast-forwarding "Earth" in anticipation of starting with "Gomron" and "Kesidu", his other recent starship captures, next... And Lindstrom would be making a rather understandable mistake when recommending costumes that are soooo last week.
Timo Saloniemi
I frequently cite this episode an an example of creative laziness. Similar worlds, okay, but right down to the 12 hour clock and clothing that fits the American specific set a little too neatly. A few little tweaks and it could have felt weird and slightly alien, but instead, it's Earth.
^ About that:
The recent Abramsverse comics suggest that Beta III is an Earth colony, and that Landru is actually a Starfleet officer who designed an AI which would help run it. Which, when you think of it, is entirely compatible with the episode as aired, as we have no certainty as to how long it's been since Landru took over anyway. Even the Betans don't know anything specific - the 6000-year figure was just a guess. The Betans had been so wussified by Landru that they are pretty much clueless as to Landru's origins. So the Abrams interpretation is just as valid as any other, IMHO.
Praetor Baldric
Lieutenant Commander
Ok, but could they be off by so much as 5900 years? That would be a pretty lousy guess!
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