Anyone receive "These Are The Voyages..." Season 2 yet?

[Ssosmcin]

If I remember correctly, in his book, Justman admitted he realized after the fact that he never would have been given the producer's spot after Herb Solow left. As much as he did help creatively and provided unpaid and uncredited story ideas, the network and/or the studio did not see him as that kind of creative force. He didn't have the resume of a writer. Freiberger, on the other hand, did have writing and producing credits.

The fact that he got co-producer was a positive step he didn't appreciate at the time. It's a shame, because the final episodes without him represent a real drop in quality control. Due to the lack of coverage of that year, I am most anxious to read the behind the scenes communications and anything else from the period. At least Freiberger will be mentioned by name, unlike in one or two other books.

 

[cbspock]

I know NBC has always been cast as the villain in every Star Trek story, but I've never been convinced that they were out to "get" Star Trek. It wasn't in their interest to have a failed series. Every action ascribed to NBC in the narrative has either turned out to be untrue (that execs weren't enlightened enough to handle a woman in authority, that NBC refused to promote the series) or perfectly reasonable (not giving a preferential time-slot to a series that wasn't performing, shuffling things around behind the scenes). If NBC really wanted Star Trek dead, they could have cancelled it at any time, or, better yet, not have commissioned the series in the first place. Can anyone point to anything NBC did that was absolutely outrageous and proved how much they "hated" Star Trek, something they did not do with other series which weren't performing up to expectations?

There really hasn't been a smoking gun against NBC yet in the books. There is obvious tension between the production and NBC over stories, costumes, implied sex, they also didn't promote certain episodes of the series. I think there is evidence in the book that Gene thought the network was out there to make their lives miserable..lol I just got up to the mid-season break after the Private Little War chapter, so there may be stuff in there that tells the tale. NBC didn't like the dig APLW took at them

There was tension because of the whole buy out of Desilu by Paramount that was causing them grief because of limits Paramount put on the production limiting hours and time for shooting.

-Chris

 

[Warped9]

^^ The episode NBC was miffed about was "Bread And Circuses."

Yeah, I'd say Paramount was more of a pain than NBC. I also get something of the sense that NBC might have had a different idea of what the show was and who the target audience they were aiming for. Roddenberry and crew intended this as an adult oriented show and yet sometimes I think the network saw it as a show aimed at youth (like teenagers). TOS was multi-layered and could appeal on many levels. I think Robertson might have got it, but his bosses I'm not so sure.

It's also amusing to read about the things they were concerned about possibly offending viewers. The stuff they fretted over was so tame by current standards. If any of them could have caught a glimpse of what would eventually get on television, particularly today on the specialty channels, they would have had a stroke.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I got the impression that Stan Robertson was a very intelligent, story-minded man who really wanted the series to be both as good and as accessible as possible. A lot of Gene’s issues seemed to be one of “don’t let network guys tell me what to do.” Robertson wasn’t always right, but he had a good idea of what the show was about. He seemed to be mostly annoyed at how often he was left out of the loop while Coon and Roddenberry would delay submitting stories to him for approval, sometimes not even until they were in production. Granted, a lot of what he wanted went against the budget the series had, but he really was a good ally for quality programming. Gene just wanted to run his own show the way he saw fit.

 

[CrazyMatt]

I got the impression that Stan Robertson was a very intelligent, story-minded man who really wanted the series to be both as good and as accessible as possible. A lot of Gene’s issues seemed to be one of “don’t let network guys tell me what to do.” Robertson wasn’t always right, but he had a good idea of what the show was about. He seemed to be mostly annoyed at how often he was left out of the loop while Coon and Roddenberry would delay submitting stories to him for approval, sometimes not even until they were in production. Granted, a lot of what he wanted went against the budget the series had, but he really was a good ally for quality programming. Gene just wanted to run his own show the way he saw fit.

Robertson did have many valid concerns as well as good ideas. However, his sometimes haughty attitude towards the production team reflected NBC's basic distrust of Gene Roddenberry. This distrust, which honestly was often warranted, had its roots in Roddenberry's actions on "The Lieutenant," the series he produced before Star Trek.

 

[cbspock]

^^ The episode NBC was miffed about was "Bread And Circuses."

Yeah, I'd say Paramount was more of a pain than NBC. I also get something of the sense that NBC might have had a different idea of what the show was and who the target audience they were aiming for. Roddenberry and crew intended this as an adult oriented show and yet sometimes I think the network saw it as a show aimed at youth (like teenagers). TOS was multi-layered and could appeal on many levels. I think Robertson might have got it, but his bosses I'm not so sure.

It's also amusing to read about the things they were concerned about possibly offending viewers. The stuff they fretted over was so tame by current standards. If any of them could have caught a glimpse of what would eventually get on television, particularly today on the specialty channels, they would have had a stroke.

Good catch My bad, I just finished the APLW chapter, hands typing without thinking


Yeah, it is sort of funny to see what NBC Broadcast standards were worried about at the time, considering what is on TV now even on NBC..lol





-Chris

 

[cbspock]

I got the impression that Stan Robertson was a very intelligent, story-minded man who really wanted the series to be both as good and as accessible as possible. A lot of Gene’s issues seemed to be one of “don’t let network guys tell me what to do.” Robertson wasn’t always right, but he had a good idea of what the show was about. He seemed to be mostly annoyed at how often he was left out of the loop while Coon and Roddenberry would delay submitting stories to him for approval, sometimes not even until they were in production. Granted, a lot of what he wanted went against the budget the series had, but he really was a good ally for quality programming. Gene just wanted to run his own show the way he saw fit.

Robertson did have many valid concerns as well as good ideas. However, his sometimes haughty attitude towards the production team reflected NBC's basic distrust of Gene Roddenberry. This distrust, which honestly was often warranted, had its roots in Roddenberry's actions on "The Lieutenant," the series he produced before Star Trek.

I never realized how his little stunt on the LT poisoned the well when Star Trek was picked up as a series. They were always on the lookout with Gene. He would also try to pull things over on them on Trek as well. They also didn't like the fact he brought Majel back in as Christine Chapel, etc.

Reading the mid season chapter. Black mentions that Shatner wanted to be a star, while Nimoy wanted to be a respected actor when discussing the "feud" between the two actors or lack thereof. Funny how that was picked up by the writer's of Galaxy Quest That film worked so well because it understood "Star Trek" both onscreen and off. It is also interesting that Star Trek itself did a Galaxy Quest type story in one of the anthology books that collected a bunch of short stories.




-Chris

 

[davejames]

Well to be fair, those TOS miniskirts look pretty darn revealing even today. I can only imagine how titillating that must have looked back in the 60s! Not to mention all the exposed flesh that was on display in the guest star outfits.

Frankly I'm amazed any of that actually got approved, or that there weren't people boycotting the network or getting morally outraged over it like you constantly see today.

 

[Melakon]

Yeah, it is sort of funny to see what NBC Broadcast standards were worried about at the time, considering what is on TV now even on NBC..lol

It wasn't all that odd if you were watching the episodes in first run like I was. There was a broadcast standards authority at all three of the networks at the time, and the rules were similar across the board. The rural audience, traditionally conservative, had a lot more weight with ratings and advertisers then.

The only thing I did wonder about at the time was why navels were forbidden, since you could see one or two every day at a swimming pool. The restriction on open-mouth kisses I didn't quite understand either, but that was because I'd never kissed anyone at that time.

I didn't understand the restriction on showing the underside of a breast either.

 

[cbspock]

Well to be fair, those TOS miniskirts look pretty darn revealing even today. I can only imagine how titillating that must have looked back in the 60s! Not to mention all the exposed flesh that was on display in the guest star outfits.

Frankly I'm amazed any of that actually got approved, or that there weren't people boycotting the network or getting morally outraged over it like you constantly see today.

The mini skirt was in style when the show was originally on, and Bill Thesis was great and exposing flesh that was not normally exposed to make a sexy look, Andrea's outfit, and Palamas' dress from Adonis are two examples. Yet, they freaked over bellybuttons..lol




-Chris

 

[Forbin]

I just read the Mirror, Mirror chapter, and it includes a long ranting letter from a female viewer who was so offended by Barbara Luna's 2-piece uniform that she sent her children to bed.

Geez, just over a bare belly and a short skirt? You'd see more than that on the beach.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Yeah and in Mirror, Mirror, there were navels all over the place. No diamonds strategically placed within.

 

[cbspock]

I just read the Mirror, Mirror chapter, and it includes a long ranting letter from a female viewer who was so offended by Barbara Luna's 2-piece uniform that she sent her children to bed.

Geez, just over a bare belly and a short skirt? You'd see more than that on the beach.

Hope she had a lot of ink and paper, since bare midriffs were in a bunch of episodes to follow.



-Chris

 

[davejames]

The mini skirt was in style when the show was originally on, and Bill Thesis was great and exposing flesh that was not normally exposed to make a sexy look, Andrea's outfit, and Palamas' dress from Adonis are two examples. Yet, they freaked over bellybuttons..lol
-Chris

Yeah it might have been in style, but I'm guessing there weren't many shows on TV with girls wearing skirts so short that their butts were often hanging out.

Not that I'm complaining of course.

 

[cbspock]

The mini skirt was in style when the show was originally on, and Bill Thesis was great and exposing flesh that was not normally exposed to make a sexy look, Andrea's outfit, and Palamas' dress from Adonis are two examples. Yet, they freaked over bellybuttons..lol
-Chris

Yeah it might have been in style, but I'm guessing there weren't many shows on TV with girls wearing skirts so short that their butts were often hanging out.

Not that I'm complaining of course.

Bellybuttons were an issue all the way into the mid 90s in some areas of the media, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.


-Chris

 

[cbspock]

Just finished the chapter on some of the story ideas they got during season 2. Some good ideas and some really bizarre stories. NBC was really into dragging their feet when it came to picking up Trek midseason. It was like they were reluctant to acknowledge the show had an audience.


-Chris

 

[CrazyMatt]

It's true that moving Star Trek to Friday night at 10 pm was its death sentence. However, when discussing the show's demise, I don't think enough importance is given to NBC's decision to move the show to Friday at 8:30 for the second season.

If NBC had left well enough alone and left Star Trek in its original Thursday night slot, I think there's a very good chance the history of Trek would have played out quite differently.

Why? Well, let's consider season two's first ten episodes, which were:

"Amok Time"
"Who Mourns for Adonais?"
"The Changeling"
"Mirror, Mirror"
"The Apple"
"The Doomsday Machine"
"Catspaw"
"I, Mudd"
"Metamorphosis"
"Journey to Babel"

As you can see, the start of that season was one very good to great episode after another (with the exception of "The Apple"). At least four of the ten are routinely included in lists of Trek's greatest episodes.

If Star Trek was ever going to be a 'hit,' those episodes should have pushed it over the hill. Unfortunately, much of Star Trek's primary audience--young people--was out and about on Friday night.

The roots of Star Trek's demise took hold in September of 1967, not a year later.

 

[Harvey]

I will make my point by quoting myself.

Also, while the Friday night at 10pm time slot was a bad one, I think it's a little simplistic to dismiss the whole night as a bad one for network ratings. After all, the dreaded Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C. was the #3 show on television during the 1967-68 network season, and it aired on Friday night at 8:30 (opposite Star Trek).

The broadcast season before (66-67), Tarzan had been a success (#27) on Friday nights at 7:30, and Hogan's Heroes had done even better in the 8:30 timeslot (#17).

Contrary to Cushman's claim, Star Trek was not doing well on Thursdays. Why wouldn't NBC move it?

 

[MGagen]

Funny how that was picked up by the writer's of Galaxy Quest That film worked so well because it understood "Star Trek" both onscreen and off. It is also interesting that Star Trek itself did a Galaxy Quest type story in one of the anthology books that collected a bunch of short stories.
-Chris

Ah, yes. "Visit to a Weird Planet, Revisited." A wonderful fan story by Ruth Berman, published by Ballentine Books in Star Trek: The New Voyages back in '76. It really is the Proto-Galaxy Quest.

That story was a sequel, presenting the flip side (actors on the Real Ship) of an earlier fan story by Jean Lorrah and Willard F. Hunt, called "Visit to a Weird Planet" where the real Kirk, Spock and McCoy end up transported to Desilu, circa 1967. I had never read that obscure original story until recently. It's quite charming as well, and can be found at this link.

M.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I will make my point by quoting myself.

Also, while the Friday night at 10pm time slot was a bad one, I think it's a little simplistic to dismiss the whole night as a bad one for network ratings. After all, the dreaded Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C. was the #3 show on television during the 1967-68 network season, and it aired on Friday night at 8:30 (opposite Star Trek).

The broadcast season before (66-67), Tarzan had been a success (#27) on Friday nights at 7:30, and Hogan's Heroes had done even better in the 8:30 timeslot (#17).

Contrary to Cushman's claim, Star Trek was not doing well on Thursdays. Why wouldn't NBC move it?

Yeah, I'm still not getting the "evil NBC purposely ruining their own show's chances to get an audience" narrative. The show was not finding an audience and NBC seemed perfectly justified in doing something. We can thank God at least they didn't decide to give Kirk a kid sidekick and a robot.